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www.aa419.org is a joke
Posted: 4/17/2008 2:58:41 PM
Sorry, but those people from http://www.aa419.org are a joke.
I have found over 36 reputable companies listed as a scam!!
They put anyone that they believe may be a "scam" on their on the so-called "database" without any evidence or background research.
From the website:
"The Internet is great, isn't it? It's a magical place, where you can buy anything you want, meet new people, find information... and lose all your money to scammers.
We've never liked that last part, so we started to fight back. Over time our art has evolved, and we now maintain the largest online repository of web sites used in internet fraud."
AND THE BEST OF ALL (Read this and laugh):
"DO NOT CONTACT US TO ASK WHETHER A COMPANY LISTED IN OUR FAKE SITES DATABASE IS REALLY FAKE. THEY ARE. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE IN OUR DATABASE."
Those kind of comments are not realy serious.
What do you think about this??
Posted: 4/18/2008 12:06:27 PM
You are wrong David. The owner of aaa419.org is located in Bratislava, Slovakia and he is not a police officer.
Posted: 4/18/2008 10:01:15 AM
By: David Marchant
I disagree. The site appears credible to me. I believe it may have been originally started by a South African police officer in an individual capacity (to avoid potential conflict with his job).
Posted: 4/17/2008 7:06:30 PM
...Looks very suspectious to me too
Posted: 4/17/2008 3:17:41 PM
By: laura hanson
they act like they have something to hide ---anonymous registration!
Created On:22-May-2004 11:23:00 UTC
Last Updated On:11-Apr-2008 08:47:58 UTC
Expiration Date:22-May-2008 11:23:00 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:eNom, Inc. (R39-LROR)
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant Name:WhoisGuard Protected
Registrant Street1:8939 S. Sepulveda Blvd
Registrant Postal Code:90045
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Admin Name:WhoisGuard Protected
Admin Street1:8939 S. Sepulveda Blvd
Admin Postal Code:90045
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Tech Name:WhoisGuard Protected
Tech Street1:8939 S. Sepulveda Blvd
Tech Postal Code:90045
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX Ext.:
Posted: 4/17/2008 3:03:16 PM
Re. "I have found over 36 reputable companies listed as a scam!!"
Without naming any of the "36 reputable companies", your comment lacks substance.
Posted: 4/19/2008 8:26:51 AM
yeah www.lloydstsb-offshore.com is listed as scam. i have made the screenshot::
Posted: 4/19/2008 8:03:04 AM
Dear David, if www.lloydstsb-offshore.com is a scam, than you are right!
Why don't you just take the time to see their so "serious" work on the forum, and the way they add websites that they believe may be a scam?
Posted: 4/18/2008 10:11:05 PM
The forum is fine and so is the web-site overall.
You began this thread by stating that: "I have found over 36 reputable companies listed as a scam!!".
Despite being asked to do so, you have not named a single "reputable" company that is listed as a scam on the www.aa419.org.
An obvious inference from this is that there are none.
Posted: 4/18/2008 5:03:27 PM
But the owner of www.aa419.org seems to be no police officer from SA.
Got to the forum and take a look "how serious" they work.
It is a shame.
Posted: 4/18/2008 12:46:50 PM
News articles published by the BBC and the New York Times would indicate I am correct, i.e. that www.410legal,org was founded by Inspector Rian Visser, an officer in the South African Police Service.
See stories at:
Posted: 4/20/2008 3:56:34 PM
this AL might as well be a scammer whos sites have been closed down....
Posted: 4/20/2008 3:51:37 PM
another scammer trying to cook up some dirt.......
Posted: 4/20/2008 3:36:03 PM
First, let me also address the anonymous registration issue...
Typically, these fraudsters, whether African or East European, are members of organised crime groups.
AA419 (amongst other anti-fraud sites) has been targeted by DDoS attacks originating in Easter Europe in the past.
South African fraudsters have tortured and killed their victims in the past.
It makes absolutely perfect sense to me that the site owners do not wish to be personally identified.
Onto the one specific example of a mistaken listing of a valid site. Mistakes happen sometimes. Scammers sometimes use real sites as a backup to their scam emails. Less experienced people may spot the scam, and then report these valid sites to AA419. All reports are investigated, but it may take a few days to do this, because AA419 is run by volunteers, and there are never enough to deal with the workload. The listing has been removed from the database.
I'm now awaiting the remainder of the list of "over 36" remaining valid sites, or indeed the "over half" that Al has claimed.
I do wonder why Al has come here with hysterical claims of malice by AA419, rather than just going there and telling them that one of the entries in their database is incorrect.
Posted: 4/20/2008 3:06:36 PM
As someone who occasionally reports fake websites to AA419, I can tell you that they are for real and do investigate the reports.
I'd like to see something to substantiate your claim... a list of the supposedly real websites in their database would be a start.
This looks more like a scammer trying to discredit a site that has listed their fake website than anything else.
Posted: 4/19/2008 2:00:37 PM
As I mentioned before David, they list reputable companies as a SCAM without any evidence/background research.
The "half" of the "fake sites database" content may be false.
And the best of all is on their contact form: "DO NOT CONTACT US TO ASK WHETHER A COMPANY LISTED IN OUR FAKE SITES DATABASE IS REALLY FAKE. THEY ARE. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE IN OUR DATABASE."
Sorry, but who knows why they do this and who is behind this site.
For me (as well as for other) www.aa419.org has demonstrates that they has no credibility at all also because they using anonymous registration as well.
Posted: 4/19/2008 1:26:01 PM
I cannot find www.lloydstsb-offshore.com in their database when I search so perhaps it has been removed. I found several references to sham web-sites that were trying to take advantage of the name 'Lloyds'. Presumably, Lloyds TSB Bank would welcome these sites being exposed.
Generally, this site seems to specialize in exposing sites that are established in names that are similar to bona fide entities.
Even if you allow that this site may make mistakes, it is clearly not a 'joke' web-site.
Posted: 4/21/2008 8:03:37 AM
You would hide your personal details as well, madam. We are pissing off some really nasty people and we are costing them millions of illgotten profit. We have families, you know. AA419.ORG is subject to constant hacking and DDoS attacks by these criminals. Now, would you like your personal details to be in the public domain if you messed with organized cyber crime?
Posted: 4/21/2008 7:32:03 AM
Maybe they shutdown some scammers but they are criminals themself.
Posted: 4/20/2008 6:51:51 PM
The claims about aa419.org are not new
Posted: 4/20/2008 6:34:16 PM
and duke can be the owner of www.aa419.org.......
Re: www.aa419.org is a joke
By duke on 4/20/2008 3:51:37 PM
another scammer trying to cook up some dirt.......
Posted: 4/20/2008 6:14:44 PM
Don't think Al is a scammer and lloydstsb-offshore.com is definitely NOT a scammer site and got listed at aa419.org.
Posted: 4/21/2008 1:35:52 PM
By: Screenshot is Still Available
Screenshot is still available.
Mirrors has been established.
Posted: 4/21/2008 9:27:39 AM
I thought the "screenshot" looked odd and also begged the question: Why not just provide a link to the part of the www.aa419.org site itself where it could be viewed. I also see that the link to the "screenshot" no longer works.
Posted: 4/21/2008 9:06:10 AM
I can prove that the so-called screenshot of the entry of Lloyds TSB Offshore is indeed a forgery. If you go to our database and look at the entries, you will see that they ALL have a "http://" prefix. This lloydstsb-offshore entry is the only one that doesn't. This is impossible, as the entries are generated automatically to include the http:// prefix. Go figure.
The original poster is actually one of those Eastern European criminals (and some of the other negative posters here are either the same crook or some of his pals) that have tried to discredit us for a while now. It's not new to us.
Some of these "trustworthy posters" here have called US criminals. I wonder where the crime is? As opposed to them we are taking nobody's money. Even donations have been disabled and we finance everything out of our own pocket as a public service. The only ones we are harming are those cockroach cyber criminals here who are spreading their filthy lies on this message board.
Posted: 4/21/2008 8:15:53 AM
Maybe they shutdown some scammers but they are criminals themself.
Posted: 4/21/2008 8:10:12 AM
Quote: "yeah www.lloydstsb-offshore.com is listed as scam. i have made the screenshot:"
Nice try, dickhead. What did you use to "make" the screenshot? Photoshop?
Posted: 4/21/2008 8:07:45 AM
Interesting. As the owner of the domain AA419.ORG I will have to say that you don't know jack. I am not in Bratislava. I am in Germany. And the person he was talking about was indeed a Police Officer with the South African Police Service, namely the Johannesburg Commercial Branch and yes, he was associated with AA419.ORG before he retired to do something completely different.
Posted: 4/21/2008 3:03:11 PM
By: A PDF with 106 legitimate online businesses listed as a scam
Ladies and Gentlemen:
We present a PDF list with 106 legitimate online businesses listed on www.aa418.org as scammer.
The PDF will be published soon on the Internet and maybe also at http://www.anti-aa419.com.
Posted: 4/21/2008 2:06:19 PM
aa418.org soon you will recognize that if you do a mistake YOU gotta pay for it! That´s what is!
Posted: 4/21/2008 1:51:40 PM
http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dcnscreenshot1ok8.jpg is counterfit. Trust me. Look at the other entries on the shot and tell me the difference.
The site in question was NEVER in the database.
The site WAS investigated but found legit (not THAT hard to determine!).
Posted: 4/21/2008 1:39:04 PM
By: Friend of aa419
Al - you are kidding, right?!
aa419.org never lists a company/website in their database unless it's a scam.
They are on the same server as Castelcops/ISC.
They cooperate with world wide hosters, fsa's, leo's.
It sounds like they messed with your "business"
Posted: 4/22/2008 11:32:54 AM
So what exactly does FBI, USS, Interpol and other LEOs against these fraudulent websites? More than nothing? Please tell us.
The php scripts you are talking about are disabled since months. There's only the database and a handful of volunteers writing complaints to hosters and registrars. Ten against ten thousand.
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:52:38 AM
A scammer acquires in 5 min a new domain & is online.
Everyone WE ALL knows about the nigerian fake bankers, romanian escrow scammers & others and will not do business with them & the russian money launderer are a case for the FBI & Interpol and not for aa419.org
but for what the hell aa419.org developed PHP scripts which are illegal practices & unlawful?
Posted: 4/22/2008 8:00:45 AM
#Anne on 4/22/2008 6:40:45 AM
> My opinion is that sites like aa419.org are very dangerous.
Indeed they are VERY dangerous for nigerian fake bankers, russian money launderers, romanian escrow scammers and all the other crooks that turn the internet into a criminal dirt hole.
BTW: The owner of anti-aa419.com uses privacy protection too. Why?
Posted: 4/22/2008 6:40:45 AM
Learning by reading = My opinion is that sites like aa419.org are very dangerous. The administrator using private registration feature to hide himself but looking for recognition. Of course it is childish magical thinking.
Posted: 4/22/2008 3:28:51 AM
Instead of presenting your fake pdf why don't you LINK to just ONE false positive in our database, so everyone can check your claims for themselves, you lying, thieving little Romanian vermin?
Posted: 4/21/2008 3:55:32 PM
419legal.org no longer useful?
Posted by suziecue in pleasantries, Web sites on March 22nd, 2007
In the past, aa419 was proud to contribute to the anti-scam efforts of 419legal.org. However, in the last couple months a significant change in ownership has taken place. Rian Visser no longer owns the domain name 419legal.org, nor does he actively contribute to the site. All previous volunteer assistants and administration teams are no longer active. A "changing of the guard" does not automatically mean a decreased level of effectiveness, or service for victims. But in this case, as we kept an eye on developments, we noticed areas of concern that do not bode well for the future of the site.
The new owner, Urmann, hasn't logged on in almost a week. Since he's apparently the only one with any authority, it's not clear how he expects victim assistance to happen in his absence.
The vast majority of activity on the site is from an RSS feed aggregator, which accumulates articles and fraud warnings from a variety of other sites and uses the content for forum posts. Of the 3,481 posts on the forum (as of 3/21/07), 3,352 had been made by the user 419legal.org -- meaning 96% of the forum's content is created by a RSS bot.
Web sites are not investigated before being blacklisted as fraudulent. A volunteer on 419legal.org has blacklisted citibank.com (among others), and the allegations have not been corrected. It is common for real bank sites to be linked to by 419 scammers to add legitimacy to their claims, and we expect that "stormtrooper" got a 419 spam from an alleged CitiBank employee. However, even the simplest of investigations reveals that citibank.com is a legitimate web site!
Questions from victims are met with lukewarm responses at best, and days of silence in most cases.
A request for information regarding a UK courier company went unanswered for four days. Fake courier companies are a trademark of lottery scams, and UK companies are simple to verify. Four days is more than enough time for a victim to lose thousands of dollars to scammer.
A request for information about fake lottery spam email was met with this response: "we can't say for certain this is a scam". No matter how many red flags you point out to a scam victim, leaving the door open like that is a very dangerous move. advance fee fraud relies on the little voice in one's head that says this could be true and it's my lucky day. Advice for potential victims should leave no room for doubt that this is a scam, and never let any "maybes" stay out there.
It is also interesting to note that user Mathilde is not part of the 419legal.org team or acting on their behalf; she's apparently just an average internet user who knows a thing or two about advance fee fraud. For prompt and accurate advice and support, scam victims would be better served by visiting Fraud Aid or Scam Victims United.
Advertising, while an annoyance, is not necessarily bad -- it can cover costs of providing a free advice service for scam victims. However, the current adS on 419legal border on the ludicrous, and are even potentially dangerous for scam victims. Google analyzes page contents to pick which ads to display; when the word "scam" is prevalent, the results are interesting to say the least. Links to "HYIP" promotion forums, or MLM scams such as egoldmediainvest.com, come up frequently; such endorsement should never be found on a site which claims to provide information on avoiding scams.
Spam advertising posts are allowed to remain on the forum, with at best minor edits.
A background checking site is described (which is, in fact, simply an affiliate link to a better known background check site). The location in the forum makes it look like it is endorsed by 419legal.org; in fact, a background check is utterly useless in cases of advance fee fraud, which relies on imaginary identities in foreign countries.
A fake electronics seller advertisement is still intact (although another user posted a disclaimer below). This is an outright scam -- the "seller" pretends to have electronics at amazing wholesale prices, but once payment is made (via Western Union or Moneygram, of course), the delivery mysteriously never arrives.
Contribution of scam letters by the general public does not request the full headers to be included. There is minimal value in the body of an advance fee fraud spam, since the names, situations, organizations, and numbers change with each letter. Full email headers provide information on the sender, reply-to email, and sending IP address, and are the main required data for an abuse department to close down email accounts used for 419 scams. A more exhaustive resource can be found instead at urgentmessage.org, which features automatic correlation of scammer names, phone numbers, and email addresses.
Due to these drawbacks, aa419.org no longer feels that it is appropriate to recommend 419legal.org as an information resource or victim assistance site. We hope that other anti-scam groups who have linked to 419legal.org in the past will do their own evaluations of the usefulness of the site as it currently exists. If 419legal.org corrects these issues in future, we will reconsider this negative review; however, they have a lot to learn.
This entry was posted on Thursday, March 22nd, 2007 at 12:49 pm and is filed under pleasantries, Web sites. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
3 Responses to “419legal.org no longer useful?”
March 22nd, 2007 at 5:43 pm
This is disappointing to be sure. 419Legal used to be to go-to guys for 419 scams, especially in South Africa due to their ties with SAPS. Looks like those ties are broken now, and the site is a shell of what it once was. I hope the current management team sees this post (since they don't seem to be spending time on their own site ) and takes some action. Mis-information about 419 is just as dangerous as 419 itself. And don't even get me started on the Ponzi scheme advertisements! Arrrgh! The very *last* thing you need scam victims exposed to is another quick way to lose money.
March 22nd, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Indeed very disappointing!
I have made a point of bringing this site to attention of the SAPS website contact person since it is inadvertently still referenced there. I understand other people have also done so.
Hopefully this was an oversight, which I am sure it is, and the situation will be rectified soon.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:13 pm
And that fake electronics reseller is a bot playing havoc with the non-maintained forum, more posts of a similar vein have been made recently.
Posted: 4/23/2008 4:15:58 AM
dont waste your time on this forum. aa419, offshorebusiness.com are belong together. see his posting here. 100% guarantee that david will provide aa419 with your IP numbers.
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:19:34 PM
Re. "I'm one victim of aa419.org. I had a real legal business entity established until I was listed by aa419. I wrote several emails but I didn't get even an answer that my situation was noticed."
Frankly, who do you expect to believe that 1. you had a legitimate business and 2. it went out of business because it was listed on aa419.org?
Several of the messages attacking www.aa419.org are extremely silly and it is difficult not to form the impression they were posted by one or more fraudsters. That they have gone to the time and trouble to repeatedly attack www.aa419.org on this message board - albeit in an amateurish and infantile manner - is a sign that the www.aa419.org site is effective in exposing fraudulent activity.
The criticism here is, in fact, the sincerest form of flattery.
Posted: 4/22/2008 3:48:52 PM
By: ONE VICTIM OF AA419
I'm one victim of aa419.org. I had a real legal business entity established until I was listed by aa419. I wrote several emails but I didn't get even an answer that my situation was noticed.
A few words to the administrator of aa419.org:
Nevermind what you do yourself with scammer, my site was not a scammer site and is listed. Your ignorance will be your fall."
Your registration is completely anon but it can't hide you from us and our attorneys or any others. BUT, I will not publish your name, email address or phone number. And to prove what I’m talking about, we have done quite a bit of research on you: We say only Kommwis - Gesellschaft Fuer Kommunikation Und Wissenstransfer Mbh.
Victims like me, will find the strength to come forward and tell the truth. Victims like me will fight back with whatever they can.
Posted: 4/22/2008 2:16:29 PM
You are absolutely clueless and you have no idea what you're talking about.
MuguMarauder, LadVampire and Moquito are no longer in use as I have stated before.
Posted: 4/22/2008 12:43:17 PM
By: The illegal methodes of aa419.org
The illegal methodes of aa419.org
We become upset When we hear it.
By VladBasher on 4/22/2008
The php scripts you are talking about are disabled since months.
Since May-22-2004 AA.419.ORG is using illegal scripts and methodes
-- SAME AS THE SCAMMER THEY FIGHT AGAINST --
Reader -- make your own decisions --
Read about the illegal scripts and methodes by aa419.org
Mugu Marauder: Windows Users Asked to Target Nigerian 419 Scammers - Don’t Do It! 2/9/2005 - 1,420 views, 17 Comments
A group calling themselves “Artists Against 419″ are asking Windows users to take part in their Mugu Marauder “art” project and take down the scam sites hosted by so-called “419 scammers”.
The “Mugu” in “Mugu Marauder” apparently is the term which the 419 scammers themselves use for an intended victim target.
The term “419″ refers to the section number of the Nigerian penal code which makes the scam illegal.
You know the type of scam I mean - it always starts out with some version of “Greetings - I am Mariam Abacha, wife of the late General Sani Abacha…“, and promises to make you wildly rich if only you can help her to smuggle out the fortunes squirreled away by her late husband.
Artists Against 419’s “project” works like this. You install the Windows software they have developed for you, which provides you with the coordinates of certain images to display on your website. Each image is actually an image currently being displayed on the websites of the 419 scammers. In other words, you are linking to their image as the source for the image on your website.
This means that the 419 scammer is ‘hosting’ the image you are displaying on your website, which in turn means that every time someone views that image on your website, the 419 scammer is the one providing the bandwidth. The theory goes that if enough users are participating in the “project”, the scammer’s site will not be able to keep up with the bandwidth demand, and the scammer’s site will go down (they claim to already have over 1300 “artists”).
An interesting theory. However, like the spectacularly stupid media stunt pulled by Lycos with their “Make Love Not Spam” screensaver program - which created a Seti-like network of Windows machines which were essentially DOSing the machines of spammers - Mugu Marauder is a Really Bad Idea.
Their FAQ starts off with:
Question: “Aren’t you fighting abuse with abuse?”
Answer: “It’s art! Sometimes art hurts, but there are no civil casualties in this battle.”
Indeed, the Mugu Marauder site says “To display images on this page we use and damage the bandwidth of the following criminal fake bank websites…”
“use and damage”.
For some reason the creators of this Mugu Marauder, the Artists Against 419, don’t think that this constitutes a DOS attack, or any other sort of illegal activity. Apparently, it turns out, these “artists” think that two wrongs do make a right, and also apparently believe that by calling it “art” their activities will be protected.
Someone has to pay for this bandwidth. Are you really stealing from the 419ers themselves (as if that would make it ok), or from innocent third parties who don’t even realize they have a scammer in their midsts?
If you think that this is somehow a legally safe activity, let me put it this way for you: try telling it to the judge.
At the very top of their site, the Mugu Marauders say that it is, and I quote: “100% risk free”
The only thing 100% about it is that it is 100% a Really Bad Idea.
Don’t do it.
Posted: 4/24/2008 8:03:02 PM
Possibly something is going wrong.
Posted: 4/24/2008 7:49:50 PM
By: our message to the public
This is our message to the public
To be clearly: perhaps aa419.org list some fraudulent websites, but definitely should NOT list anyone!!!!!!!
No, we don't have anything against aa419.org except that they should be careful about WHAT THEY LIST!!!!!!!!
Posted: 4/24/2008 7:21:02 PM
WARNING: Please be aware that aa419.org itself has used criminal tactics and list comapnies as a sport only. We don't encourage anyone to engage in any form of communications with them. If you chose to communicate with them, for whatever reasons, you will be doing so at your own risk.
Posted: 4/23/2008 1:49:08 PM
By: David S. Lesperance
To use a phrase I have previously stated:
"All business deals are bad until proven otherwise"
IOW It is not up to the purchaser or David Marchant or anyone else to prove that a given business proposition or site is a scam. It is up to the business owner/promoter to show that their business has merit.
This is something that my grandfather taught me and has proved a great starting point for me throughout my whole life.
A typical response that I hear from promoters of outrageous schemes is "Well no authorities have closed us down, therefore we must be legitimate". Nonsense. It is proof of nothing except a) you haven't come to the attention of the authorities; b) you have come to the attention of the authorities but they have not closed you down yet because of lack of resources etc.; or c) the authorities are in the process of closing you down.
David S. Lesperance
Barrister and Solicitor
Posted: 4/23/2008 5:44:25 AM
By David Marchant on 4/22/2008 9:19:34 PM
......is a sign that the www.aa419.org site is effective in exposing fraudulent activity.
For me it is a sign that something is going wrong in the society.
I think only constructive comments are worth posting.
Finally not everyone is a scammer, so people do form bonds quickly but it is up till you to use your judgment.
Posted: 4/23/2008 4:52:30 AM
Like all 'guarantees' from crooks, yours is worthless.
Posted: 4/25/2008 10:49:32 AM
You must have visited the wrong site.
www.lloydstsb-offshore.com is indeed 1. a Lloyds TSB site and 2. a banking site.
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