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James Kramer-Wilt Pleads to Federal Charges
Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/4/2003 9:47:17 PM

By: David Marchant

Re. "This guy ... shared a lot of valuable information".

Maybe that's what got him into trouble, since he worked for the government!

David Marchant


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/4/2003 9:30:59 PM

By: Hard to believe and sad

This news is hard to believe and sad to me. This guy was always willing to put in the time to answer my questions and shared a lot of valuable information. I think he was considered an expert in the HYIP arena which makes it even harder to believe.

Hunter


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/4/2003 9:15:41 PM

By: David Marchant

Very interesting. I will obtain the underlying documents and make them available gratis.

I'll post a message here when they are available.

David Marchant


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/4/2003 9:14:12 PM

By: jcolvin2

My post was incomplete and I accidentally posted it before I had completed the narrative (I was trying to clean up the PACER/RACER docket sheets that I had attached - sorry about the inclusion of both the PACER and RACER docket sheets.) At any rate, the charges bribery/illegal gratuity charges against Kramer-Witt apparently relate to money received from Wheeler, the defendant in the related case (who was charged with mail or wire fraud), which I also posted. The Indictment and Plea Agreement are not available online, but I am arranging to obtain them. The Plea apparently does not involve an admission to bribery, but only the receipt of an "contribution to or supplementation of salary of salary, as compensation for his services" from a person other than a government body.


Internal Administrator
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM
Joined: 10/12/2010
Posts: 5784


Posted: 3/4/2003 8:51:55 PM

By: jcolvin2

James Kramer-Wilt, an attorney formerly with the Bureau of Public Debt, was indicted last November on bribery/illegal gratuity charges in the Eastern District of Texas. pled guilty on January 31, 2003 to receiving additional compensation from a private person.

U.S. District Court

Texas, Eastern (Lufkin)

CRIMINAL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 02-CR-42-ALL

USA v. Kramer-Wilt

Filed: 11/07/02
Dkt# in other court: None



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Case Assigned to: Judge John Hannah, Jr.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



JAMES KRAMER-WILT (1) Gregory Allen Waldron, Asst FPD
defendant 5319625
[COR LD NTC pda]
Federal Defender's Office
200 E Ferguson
Ste 407
Tyler, TX 75702
903/531-9233
FTS 531-9625
Pending Counts: Disposition
18:201C.F BRIBERY OF PUBLIC
OFFICIALS AND WITNESSES
(1)
18:209.M SALARY OF GOVERNMENT
EMPLOYEE PAYABLE BY U.S.
(2)
Offense Level (opening): 4
Terminated Counts:
NONE
Complaints:
NONE
U. S. Attorneys:
John Malcolm Bales, AUSA
19366398683
[COR LD NTC]
U S Attorney's Office
415 S First St
Suite 201
Lufkin, TX 75901
936/639-8671




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


DOCKET PROCEEDINGS


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DATE # DOCKET ENTRY



11/6/02 1 INDICTMENT as to James Kramer-Wilt (1) count(s) 1, 2 (jpk)
[Entry date 11/13/02]

11/6/02 2 Form AO 257 filed as to James Kramer-Wilt (jpk)
[Entry date 11/13/02]

11/7/02 3 Notice of Case Association by USA pursuant to General
Order 92-15 as to James Kramer-Wilt . It is requested that
this case be assigned to Judge John Hannah to whom related
case(s) 9:02cr34 is/are assigned. (jpk)
[Entry date 11/13/02]

11/13/02 -- SUMMONS(ES) issued for James Kramer-Wilt Initial Appearance
set for 2:00 12/5/02 for James Kramer-Wilt Arraignment set
for 2:00 12/5/02 for James Kramer-Wilt. Copy of summons as
NOTICE OF HEARING given to USA, USM, USPO, Judge Hannah,
Mag. Judge Guthrie on 12/13/02 (jpk) [Entry date 11/13/02]

11/14/02 4 NOTICE of Hearing as to James Kramer-Wilt :, set Initial
Appearance for 2:00 12/5/02 in Tyler, Texas, for James
Kramer-Wilt before Magistrate Judge Judith K. Guthrie cc
all parties 11/14/02 (tln) [Entry date 11/14/02]

12/5/02 -- ARREST of James Kramer-Wilt established as 12/5/02 (jpk)
[Entry date 12/06/02]

12/5/02 -- Initial appearance as to James Kramer-Wilt held on
indictment before Mag. Judge Guthrie. Dft appeared without
counsel; Greg Waldron appointed to represent him. Order
setting conditions of release entered. (Defendant informed
of rights.) (jpk) [Entry date 12/06/02]

12/5/02 5 ORDER Appointing Federal Public Defender Gregory Allen
Waldron for James Kramer-Wilt ( Signed by Magistrate Judge
Judith K. Guthrie) Cys to atty for dft, USA, USPO on
12/6/02 (jpk) [Entry date 12/06/02] [Edit date 12/06/02]

12/5/02 6 ORDER Setting Conditions of Release as to James Kramer-Wilt
( Signed by Magistrate Judge Judith K. Guthrie ) Cys to
atty for dft, USA, USM, on 12/6/02 (jpk)
[Entry date 12/06/02] [Edit date 12/06/02]

12/5/02 -- Arraignment as to James Kramer-Wilt held on indictment
before Mag. Judge Guthrie. Dft plead NOT GUILTY to counts
1,2. JURY TRIAL set for 1/21/03 at 9:00 a.m. before Judge
Hannah. Defendant informed of rights. (jpk)
[Entry date 12/06/02] [Edit date 12/06/02]

12/5/02 -- PLEA entered by James Kramer-Wilt . Court accepts plea.
Not Guilty: James Kramer-Wilt (1) count(s) 1, 2 (jpk)
[Entry date 12/06/02]

12/5/02 7 ORDER relating to Pretrial Discovery and Inspection as to
James Kramer-Wilt ( Signed by Magistrate Judge Judith K
Guthrie ) Cys to parties on 12/5/02 (jpk)
[Entry date 12/06/02] [Edit date 12/06/02]

12/5/02 8 ORDER relating to defenses, objections, or requests of dft
James Kramer-Wilt ( Signed by Magistrate Judge Judith K.
Guthrie ) Cys to parties on 12/5/02 (jpk)
[Entry date 12/06/02] [Edit date 12/06/02]

12/5/02 9 Minutes filed as to James Kramer-Wilt re: initial appearance
and arraignment on indictment before Magistrate Judge Judith
K Guthrie (Ct rep: M Covey) (jpk) [Entry date 12/06/02]
[Edit date 12/06/02]

12/5/02 10 ORDER as to James Kramer-Wilt, set jury selection for
9:00 1/21/03 for James Kramer-Wilt before Judge John
Hannah Jr. in Lufkin, Texas, set Jury trial for 9:00
1/21/03 for James Kramer-Wilt before Judge John Hannah Jr.
in Lufkin, Texas The deadline for notifying the Court of
any plea bargain is 1/16/03 at 3:00 p.m. ( Signed by
Magistrate Judge Judith K. Guthrie ) Cys to parties on
12/5/02 (jpk) [Entry date 12/06/02]

12/20/02 11 Receipt for surrender of Passport as to James Kramer-Wilt
Passport # 203210961 Country: USA on 12/20/02 (jpk)
[Entry date 12/20/02]

12/24/02 12 NOTICE of Order Not to Obtain Passport and Surrendered
Passport as to James Kramer-Wilt (rvw) [Entry date 12/24/02]

1/14/03 13 NOTICE of Hearing as to James Kramer-Wilt :, set Change
of Plea Hearing for 2:00 in Tyler on 1/24/03 for James
Kramer-Wilt before Judge John Hannah Jr. (pad)
[Entry date 01/14/03]

1/16/03 14 MOTION by James Kramer-Wilt of Continuance in Interests of
Justice (ft) [Entry date 01/16/03]

1/24/03 15 NOTICE of Hearing as to James Kramer-Wilt :, set Change
of Plea Hearing for 4:30 in Tyler on 1/30/03 for James
Kramer-Wilt before Judge John Hannah Jr. (pad)
[Entry date 01/24/03]

1/24/03 16 ORDER as to James Kramer-Wilt granting [14-1] motion of
Continuance in Interests of Justice Time Excluded from
1/24/03 to 2/3/03 as to James Kramer-Wilt (1), reset Jury
trial for 2/3/03 for James Kramer-Wilt before Judge John
Hannah Jr. ( Signed by Judge John Hannah Jr. ) cc: Judge
Hannah, all parties 1/27/03 (ft) [Entry date 01/27/03]

1/30/03 -- Change of Plea Hearing as to James Kramer-Wilt held (ft)
[Entry date 01/31/03]

1/30/03 -- PLEA entered by James Kramer-Wilt . Court accepts plea.
Guilty: James Kramer-Wilt (1) count(s) 2 (Terminated
motions: ) (ft) [Entry date 01/31/03]

1/30/03 -- Plea Agreement Accepted as to James Kramer-Wilt ( Accepted
by Judge John Hannah Jr. ) (ft) [Entry date 01/31/03]

1/30/03 17 Minutes filed as to James Kramer-Wilt re: hearing before
Judge John Hannah Jr. (Ct rep: Ron Mason) (ft)
[Entry date 01/31/03]

1/30/03 18 Plea Agreement as to James Kramer-Wilt Filed (ft)
[Entry date 01/31/03]

Docket Sheet for 9:02-cr-42 USDC Texas Eastern
ARR HM
U.S. District Court
Texas, Eastern (Lufkin)

CRIMINAL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 02-CR-42-ALL

USA v. Kramer-Wilt Filed: 11/07/02
Dkt# in other court: None

Case Assigned to: Judge John Hannah, Jr.

JAMES KRAMER-WILT (1) Gregory Allen Waldron, Asst FPD
defendant 9035319625
[COR LD NTC pda]
Federal Defender's Office
200 E Ferguson
Ste 407
Tyler, TX 75702
903/531-9233


Pending Counts: Disposition

18:201C.F BRIBERY OF PUBLIC
OFFICIALS AND WITNESSES
(1)

18:209.M SALARY OF GOVERNMENT
EMPLOYEE PAYABLE BY U.S.
(2)


Offense Level (opening): 4


Terminated Counts:

NONE



Complaints:

NONE


U. S. Attorneys:

John Malcolm Bales, AUSA
19366398683
[COR LD NTC]
U S Attorney's Office
415 S First St
Suite 201

Lufkin, TX 75901
936/639-8671




Proceedings include all events
Date Filed Doc. No. Image Description
01/30/2003 18 Not Available Plea Agreement as to James Kramer-Wilt Filed [Date Entered: 01/31/03, By: ft]
01/30/2003 17 Not Available Minutes filed as to James Kramer-Wilt re: hearing before Judge John Hannah Jr. (Ct rep: Ron Mason) [Date Entered: 01/31/03, By: ft]
01/30/2003 -- No Plea Agreement Accepted as to James Kramer-Wilt ( Accepted by Judge John Hannah Jr. ) [Date Entered: 01/31/03, By: ft]
01/30/2003 -- No PLEA entered by James Kramer-Wilt . Court accepts plea. Guilty: James Kramer-Wilt (1) count(s) 2 (Terminated motions: ) [Date Entered: 01/31/03, By: ft]
01/30/2003 -- No Change of Plea Hearing as to James Kramer-Wilt held [Date Entered: 01/31/03, By: ft]
01/24/2003 16 Not Available ORDER as to James Kramer-Wilt granting [14-1] motion of Continuance in Interests of Justice Time Excluded from 1/24/03 to 2/3/03 as to James Kramer-Wilt (1), reset Jury trial for 2/3/03 for James Kramer-Wilt before Judge JohnHannah Jr. ( Signed by Judge John Hannah Jr. ) cc: Judge Hannah, all parties 1/27/03 [Date Entered: 01/27/03, By: ft]
01/24/2003 15 Not Available NOTICE of Hearing as to James Kramer-Wilt :, set Change of Plea Hearing for 4:30 in Tyler on 1/30/03 for James Kramer-Wilt before Judge John Hannah Jr. [Date Entered: 01/24/03, By: pad]
01/16/2003 14 Not Available MOTION by James Kramer-Wilt of Continuance in Interests of Justice [Date Entered: 01/16/03, By: ft]
01/14/2003 13 Not Available NOTICE of Hearing as to James Kramer-Wilt :, set Change of Plea Hearing for 2:00 in Tyler on 1/24/03 for James Kramer-Wilt before Judge John Hannah Jr. [Date Entered: 01/14/03, By: pad]
12/24/2002 12 No NOTICE of Order Not to Obtain Passport and Surrendered Passport as to James Kramer-Wilt [Date Entered: 12/24/02, By: rvw]
12/20/2002 11 No Receipt for surrender of Passport as to James Kramer-Wilt Passport # 203210961 Country: USA on 12/20/02 [Date Entered: 12/20/02, By: jpk]
12/05/2002 10 Not Available ORDER as to James Kramer-Wilt, set jury selection for 9:00 1/21/03 for James Kramer-Wilt before Judge John Hannah Jr. in Lufkin, Texas, set Jury trial for 9:00 1/21/03 for James Kramer-Wilt before Judge John Hannah Jr.in Lufkin, Texas The deadline for notifying the Court of any plea bargain is 1/16/03 at 3:00 p.m. ( Signed by Magistrate Judge Judith K. Guthrie ) Cys to parties on 12/5/02 [Date Entered: 12/06/02, By: jpk]
12/05/2002 9 Not Available Minutes filed as to James Kramer-Wilt re: initial appearance and arraignment on indictment before Magistrate Judge Judith K Guthrie (Ct rep: M Covey) [Date Entered: 12/06/02, By: jpk]
12/05/2002 8 Not Available ORDER relating to defenses, objections, or requests of dft James Kramer-Wilt ( Signed by Magistrate Judge Judith K. Guthrie ) Cys to parties on 12/5/02 [Date Entered: 12/06/02, By: jpk]
12/05/2002 7 Not Available ORDER relating to Pretrial Discovery and Inspection as to James Kramer-Wilt ( Signed by Magistrate Judge Judith K Guthrie ) Cys to parties on 12/5/02 [Date Entered: 12/06/02, By: jpk]
12/05/2002 -- No PLEA entered by James Kramer-Wilt . Court accepts plea. Not Guilty: James Kramer-Wilt (1) count(s) 1, 2 [Date Entered: 12/06/02, By: jpk]
12/05/2002 -- No Arraignment as to James Kramer-Wilt held on indictment before Mag. Judge Guthrie. Dft plead NOT GUILTY to counts 1,2. JURY TRIAL set for 1/21/03 at 9:00 a.m. before Judge Hannah. Defendant informed of rights. [Date Entered: 12/06/02, By: jpk]
12/05/2002 6 Not Available ORDER Setting Conditions of Release as to James Kramer-Wilt ( Signed by Magistrate Judge Judith K. Guthrie ) Cys to atty for dft, USA, USM, on 12/6/02 [Date Entered: 12/06/02, By: jpk]
12/05/2002 5 Not Available ORDER Appointing Federal Public Defender Gregory Allen Waldron for James Kramer-Wilt ( Signed by Magistrate Judge Judith K. Guthrie) Cys to atty for dft, USA, USPO on 12/6/02 [Date Entered: 12/06/02, By: jpk]
12/05/2002 -- No Initial appearance as to James Kramer-Wilt held on indictment before Mag. Judge Guthrie. Dft appeared without counsel; Greg Waldron appointed to represent him. Order setting conditions of release entered. (Defendant informedof rights.) [Date Entered: 12/06/02, By: jpk]
12/05/2002 -- No ARREST of James Kramer-Wilt established as 12/5/02 [Date Entered: 12/06/02, By: jpk]
11/14/2002 4 Not Available NOTICE of Hearing as to James Kramer-Wilt :, set Initial Appearance for 2:00 12/5/02 in Tyler, Texas, for James Kramer-Wilt before Magistrate Judge Judith K. Guthrie cc all parties 11/14/02 [Date Entered: 11/14/02, By: tln]
11/13/2002 -- No SUMMONS(ES) issued for James Kramer-Wilt Initial Appearance set for 2:00 12/5/02 for James Kramer-Wilt Arraignment set for 2:00 12/5/02 for James Kramer-Wilt. Copy of summons as NOTICE OF HEARING given to USA, USM, USPO, Judge Hannah,Mag. Judge Guthrie on 12/13/02 [Date Entered: 11/13/02, By: jpk]
11/07/2002 3 Not Available Notice of Case Association by USA pursuant to General Order 92-15 as to James Kramer-Wilt . It is requested that this case be assigned to Judge John Hannah to whom related case(s) 9:02cr34 is/are assigned. [Date Entered: 11/13/02, By: jpk]
11/06/2002 -- No **Added Government Attorney John Malcolm Bales [Date Entered: 11/13/02, By: jpk]
11/06/2002 2 Not Available Form AO 257 filed as to James Kramer-Wilt [Date Entered: 11/13/02, By: jpk]
11/06/2002 1 Not Available INDICTMENT as to James Kramer-Wilt (1) count(s) 1, 2 [Date Entered: 11/13/02, By: ]

Docket as of March 3, 2003 7:35 pm Web PACER (v2.3)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. District Court

Texas, Eastern (Lufkin)

CRIMINAL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 02-CR-34-ALL

USA v. Wheeler

Filed: 02/12/03
Dkt# in other court: None



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Case Assigned to: Judge John Hannah, Jr.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



JOHN ALLEN WHEELER (1) Otis W Carroll, Jr
defendant 9035811071
[COR LD NTC ret]
Ireland Carroll & Kelley
6101 S Broadway
Suite 500
Tyler, TX 75703
Smith
903/561-1600
Pending Counts: Disposition
18:1343.F FRAUD BY WIRE, RADIO,
OR TELEVISION
(1)
Offense Level (opening): 4
Terminated Counts:
NONE
Complaints:
NONE
U. S. Attorneys:
John Malcolm Bales, AUSA
19366398683
[COR LD NTC]
U S Attorney's Office
415 S First St
Suite 201
Lufkin, TX 75901
936/639-8671




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


DOCKET PROCEEDINGS


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DATE # DOCKET ENTRY



1/16/03 1 NOTICE of Plea Hearing as to John Allen Wheeler Scheduled
for February 10, 2003 at 9:30 a.m., Lufkin, Texas before
Judge John Hannah cc: USA, Carroll, USPO, USM 1/16/03 (rvw)
[Entry date 02/12/03]

2/10/03 2 INFORMATION as to John Allen Wheeler (Amended Information
Filed 2/10/03-Doc 3) (rvw) [Entry date 02/12/03]

2/10/03 3 AMENDED INFORMATION as to John Allen Wheeler (1) count(s) 1
(rvw) [Entry date 02/12/03]

2/10/03 -- Initial appearance /Plea hearing as to John Allen Wheeler
held before Judge John Hannah, Malcolm Bales for USA, Otis
Carroll for Dft, Guilty plea entered and accepted by court,
plea agreement filed, conditions of release filed.
(Defendant informed of rights.) (rvw) [Entry date 02/12/03]

2/10/03 -- PLEA entered by John Allen Wheeler . Court accepts plea.
Guilty: John Allen Wheeler (1) count(s) 1 (rvw)
[Entry date 02/12/03]

2/10/03 -- Plea Agreement Accepted as to John Allen Wheeler ( Accepted
by Judge John Hannah Jr. ) (rvw) [Entry date 02/12/03]

2/10/03 4 Plea Agreement as to John Allen Wheeler Filed (rvw)
[Entry date 02/12/03]

2/10/03 5 WAIVER OF INDICTMENT by John Allen Wheeler (rvw)
[Entry date 02/12/03]

2/10/03 6 ORDER Setting Conditions of Release as to John Allen
Wheeler ( Signed by Judge John Hannah Jr. ) (rvw)
[Entry date 02/12/03]

2/10/03 7 Minutes filed as to John Allen Wheeler re: hearing before
Judge John Hannah Jr. (Ct rep: Ron Mason) (rvw)
[Entry date 02/12/03]

2/10/03 8 MOTION and brief by USA as to John Allen Wheeler for
Preliminary Order of Forfeiture (rvw) [Entry date 02/12/03]

2/10/03 9 ORDER as to John Allen Wheeler granting [8-1] motion for
Preliminary Order of Forfeiture as to John Allen Wheeler
(1) ( Signed by Judge John Hannah Jr. ) Cpy to pty's
2/12/03 USA, USPO, USM, Otis Carroll, Judge Hannah (rvw)
[Entry date 02/12/03]

2/27/03 10 TRANSCRIPT for Change of Plea Hearing filed in case as to
John Allen Wheeler for dates of 2/10/03 ( 32 pages) (ft)
[Entry date 02/28/03]

3/3/03 11 Receipt for Surrender f USA Passport as to John Allen
Wheeler Passport # 132995223 (rvw) [Entry date 03/03/03]


----------------------------------------------------------------

END OF DOCKET: 9:02cr34-0


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 2:00:00 AM

By: NewStudent

And wasn't the bigger question as it relates to this whether or not Wilt was actually using his knowledge to perpetuate an asset recovery service/scam? via self-admitted victims on the D-Board?


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 1:35:13 AM

By: jc - Richard Gerry Docket Sheet

According to the Lufkin Daily News, Gerry was the payor of the $15,000 in allegedly illegal gratuities paid to Kramer-Wilt. The gratuities for for helping Gerry and Wheeler obtain info re HYIP investments in a (doomed) effort to achieve the high return (6-8%/month) promised by Wheeler to investors.

U.S. District Court, Texas, Eastern (Lufkin)

CRIMINAL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 02-CR-44-ALL

USA v. Gerry

Filed: 11/06/02
Dkt# in other court: None
----------------------------------------------------------------

Case Assigned to: Judge John Hannah, Jr.
----------------------------------------------------------------

RICHARD GERRY (1) Brent Clifton Howard
defendant 9035330260
[COR LD NTC ret]
Howard Davis & Bunt
P O Drawer 1050
216 W Erwin, Ste 200
Tyler, TX 75710
903/533-9997
Pending Counts: Disposition
18:201C.F BRIBERY OF PUBLIC
OFFICIALS AND WITNESSES
(1)
18:209.M SALARY OF GOVERNMENT
EMPLOYEE PAYABLE BY U.S.
(1s)
18:209.M SALARY OF GOVERNMENT
EMPLOYEE PAYABLE BY U.S.
(2)
Offense Level (opening): 4
Terminated Counts:
NONE
Complaints:
NONE
U. S. Attorneys:
John Malcolm Bales, AUSA
19366398683
[COR LD NTC]
U S Attorney's Office
415 S First St
Suite 201
Lufkin, TX 75901
936/639-8671

---------------------------------------------------------------


DOCKET PROCEEDINGS


----------------------------------------------------------------

DATE # DOCKET ENTRY



11/6/02 1 INDICTMENT as to Richard Gerry (1) count(s) 1, 2 (jpk)
[Entry date 11/13/02]

11/6/02 2 Form AO 257 filed as to Richard Gerry (jpk)
[Entry date 11/13/02]

11/7/02 3 Notice of Case Association by USA pursuant to General
Order 92-15 as to Richard Gerry . It is requested that this
case be assigned to Judge Hannah to whom related case(s)
9:02cr34 is/are assigned. (jpk) [Entry date 11/13/02]

11/13/02 -- SUMMONS(ES) issued for Richard Gerry Initial Appearance set
for 2:00 11/25/02 for Richard Gerry Arraignment set for
2:00 11/25/02 for Richard Gerry. Copy of summons as NOTICE
OF HEARING to USA, USM, USPO, Judge Hannah, Mag. Judge
Guthrie, atty Brent Howard on 11/13/02 (jpk)
[Entry date 11/13/02]

11/13/02 4 NOTICE of Hearing as to Richard Gerry :, set Initial
Appearance for 2:00 11/25/02 in Tyler, Texas, for Richard
Gerry before Magistrate Judge Judith K. Guthrie (tln)
[Entry date 11/14/02]

11/18/02 5 SUMMONS Returned Executed on indictment as to Richard Gerry
11/14/02 Summons left at dft's dwelling house with Corina
Gerry (jpk) [Entry date 11/22/02]

11/25/02 6 Receipt for surrender of Passport as to Richard Gerry
Passport # 140806615 Country: USA surrendered on 11/25/02
(jpk) [Entry date 11/26/02]

11/25/02 -- ARREST of Richard Gerry on indictment extablished as
11/25/02 (jpk) [Entry date 11/26/02]

11/25/02 -- Initial appearance as to Richard Gerry held on indictment
before Mag. Judge Guthrie. Dft appeared with counsel,
Brent Howard. Dft executed UNSECURED bond in amt of
$25,000.00. (Defendant informed of rights.) (jpk)
[Entry date 11/26/02]

11/25/02 7 UNSECURED BOND entered by Richard Gerry in Amount $
25,000.00 (jpk) [Entry date 11/26/02]

11/25/02 8 ORDER Setting Conditions of Release as to Richard Gerry (
Signed by Magistrate Judge Judith K. Guthrie ) Cys to
parties on 11/25/02 (jpk) [Entry date 11/26/02]

11/25/02 -- Arraignment as to Richard Gerry held on indictment before
Mag. Judge Guthrie. Dft plead NOT GUILTY to counts 1,2.
JURY SELECTION and JURY TRIAL set for 1/21/03 at 9:00 a.m.
before Judge Hannah Defendant informed of rights. (jpk)
[Entry date 11/26/02]

11/25/02 -- APPEARANCE Through Counsel by Richard GerryBrent Howard
(jpk) [Entry date 11/26/02]

11/25/02 9 ORDER as to Richard Gerry, set jury selection for 9:00
1/21/03 for Richard Gerry before Judge John Hannah Jr. in
Lufkin, Texas, set Jury trial for 9:00 1/21/03 for
Richard Gerry before Judge John Hannah Jr. in Lufkin, Texas
. The deadline for notifying the Court of any plea
bargain or plea agreement is 1/16/03 at 3:00 p.m. ( Signed
by Magistrate Judge Judith K. Guthrie ) (jpk)
[Entry date 11/26/02]

11/25/02 10 ORDER relating to Pretrial Discovery and Inspection as to
Richard Gerry ( Signed by Magistrate Judge Judith K.
Guthrie ) Cys to parties on 11/25/02 (jpk)
[Entry date 11/26/02]

11/25/02 11 ORDER relating to defenses, objections or requests of dft
Richard Gerry ( Signed by Magistrate Judge Judith K.
Guthrie ) Cys to parties on 11/25/02 (jpk)
[Entry date 11/26/02]

11/25/02 12 Minutes filed as to Richard Gerry re: initial appearance
and arraignment on indictment before Magistrate Judge
Judith K. Guthrie (Ct rep: Shea Sloan) (jpk)
[Entry date 11/26/02]

12/16/02 13 NOTICE regarding passport as to Richard Gerry (jpk)
[Entry date 12/20/02]

1/14/03 14 NOTICE of Hearing as to Richard Gerry :, set Change of
Plea Hearing for 2:00 1/21/03 for Richard Gerry before
Judge John Hannah Jr. (pad) [Entry date 01/14/03]

1/16/03 15 NOTICE of Hearing as to Richard Gerry :, reset Change of
Plea Hearing for 1:30 in Tyler on 1/24/03 for Richard Gerry
before Judge John Hannah Jr. (pad) [Entry date 01/16/03]

1/24/03 -- Plea Agreement Hearing as to Richard Gerry held (ft)
[Entry date 01/27/03]

1/24/03 -- PLEA entered by Richard Gerry . Court accepts plea.
Guilty: Richard Gerry (1) count(s) 1 (Terminated motions:
) (ft) [Entry date 01/27/03]

1/24/03 -- Plea Agreement Accepted as to Richard Gerry ( Accepted by
Judge John Hannah Jr. ) (ft) [Entry date 01/27/03]

1/24/03 16 Minutes filed as to Richard Gerry re: hearing before Judge
John Hannah Jr. (Ct rep: Ron Mason) (ft)
[Entry date 01/27/03]

1/24/03 17 Plea Agreement as to Richard Gerry Filed (ft)
[Entry date 01/27/03]

1/24/03 18 INFORMATION as to as to Richard Gerry (ft)
[Entry date 01/27/03]

1/24/03 19 WAIVER OF INDICTMENT by Richard Gerry (ft)
[Entry date 01/27/03]


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 1:06:29 AM

By: jc - Nov 9 Art from Lufkin Daily News


11/9/02 Nacogdoches man indicted by grand jury
By CHRISTINE S. DIAMOND
A Nacogdoches man was indicted by a federal grand jury this week for giving a government official an illegal gratuity.

Richard Gerry, 45, was indicted on one count of illegal gratuity. He allegedly gave the gift made to James Kramer-Wilt with the Bureau of Public Debt in West Virginia. Kramer-Wilt was in turn indicted for accepting the gratuity.

"There is a thin line of distinction between a bribe and an illegal gratuity -- but a significant difference," said Assistant U.S. Attorney Malcolm Bales.

According to Bales, government officials are always prohibited from accepting gratuities or payments in connection to their official duties. A bribe is typically connected to a corrupt influence, he said.

Gerry began working with Nacogdoches businessman John Wheeler in the summer of 2001. Wheeler was indicted a month ago by a federal grand jury for operating a Ponzi scheme that cost investors an estimated $23 million, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office.

"Gerry's job was to assist Wheeler in finding high-yield investment programs in which Wheeler could invest money," Bales stated in a press release. "As part of his job responsibility, Gerry sought the counsel and advice of Kramer-Wilt, whom he had met several years before."

Kramer-Wilt's job description included exposing high-yield investment program fraud, a criminal offense.

Through his work, Kramer-Wilt became familiar with the identities of individuals who were interested in participating in high-yield investments, including Wheeler, according to prosecutors.

Wheeler sponsored a program between 1999 and April 2002 that promised compounded returns of 6 to 8 percent per month, according the U.S. Attorney's Office.

"Consequently, Kramer-Wilt was aware that John Wheeler was interested in investing in suspect financial ventures," Bales stated in the press release.

Regardless, Kramer-Wilt is alleged by the federal indictment of providing financial information to Gerry and Wheeler on a regular basis.

Between Oct. 2001 and March 2002, Gerry encouraged Wheeler to pay Kramer-Wilt, for his assistance, in three $5,000 payments.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 12:01:43 AM

By: jcolvin2 - Lisa's revelations?

I do not recall Lisa ever speculating that Kramer-Wilt would ultimately find himself under Indictment for receiving a bribe or illegal gratuity. Without inserting myself into the Lisa debate, I think I can fairly characterize the core of Lisa's complaint against those associated with Diligizer was that the group were planning on using the information that had been gathered, both publicly and privately, to start a due diligence/asset recovery business, without appropriate disclosure (whatever that means). Kramer-Wilt's participation in such a venture would have only been improper if he purloined government information to undertake such a project. Lisa was also upset by the way that Kramer-Wilt and those affiliated with Diligizer had treated her at about the time of her blacklisting and thereafter, which she complained was inconsistent with how they treated their own - Bukovich and Wright.

Kramer-Wilt was the Bureau of Public Debt's in-house HYIP expert. He was touted in a US Attorneys Bulletin (a publication by the Executive Office of US Attorneys) from a couple of years ago as an expert witness in HYIP fraud cases. Everyone who dealt with him (Lisa included) seemed to have a high opinion of his level of knowledge and his willingness to assist.

As far as Kramer-Wilt goes, Lisa's revelations certainly raised issues regarding potential conflicts of interest on his part. But, I don't think anyone (Lisa included) imagined that Kramer-Wilt would become financially involved with a potential criminal defendant. I think that this is just random weirdness - not the manifestation of a character flaw which had been revealed or predicted by Lisa.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/4/2003 11:17:00 PM

By: Sooltauq

Say what you want about Lisa Arden (and Lord knows there are lots and lots and lots of bad things that one can say about her), but her revelations regarding the people behind the Diligizer board have proven to be true in spades.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/4/2003 10:03:14 PM

By: Maybe other cases but not mine

That could well be with others but I don't think so in my case. I only got publicly available information from him but it was information I didn't know how to get at the time. He also answered my questions as I attempted to learn more about HYIPs. I really think/thought (can't even decide which one to use) he was a good guy fighting the good fight.

Have a good one,
Hunter


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 1:55:11 PM

By: Sooltauq

Agreed. Bukovich and White were never prosecuted, although the SEC got a cease-and-desist against one, and the Serious Frauds Office commented quite unflatteringly upon the other.

Also, none of the above is meant as any criticism of Paul Renner, who as far as I know came very late into the game with no ill intentions and probably didn't find out until too late about the true past of some of these characters. I just hope he's learned that "once a crook always a crook" with exceedingly rare exceptions.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 1:28:40 PM

By: David Marchant

It is only fair to point out that Bukovich was prosecuted at civil court by the SEC, rather than criminally by a law enforcement agency.

It still involved fraud, though.

David Marchant


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 11:48:47 AM

By: Sooltauq

For those of you who weren't around in the early days of the internet boards, the original "boards" (most of which don't exist anymore) were basically set up as "investment boards" by the HYIP scammers to tout prime bank and MTN investments, discounting, forfaiting, etc. This was when most people -- and even most people in law enforcement -- didn't know what a prime bank scam was.

Later, after the SEC and other law enforcement agencies started actively pursuing HYIP scams, and a few people were indicted for openly soliciting HYIP scams over the internet, the boards subtly changed their character to be more of the "discussion board" format where people "debated" the existence of prime bank programs and conducted "due diligence" on certain programs, and investors were quietly approached by private e-mail to invest in deals.

The whole concept of the "due diligence" or "non-performers" boards is nonsensical in the context of why do "due diligence" or locate the "non-performers" for a class of investments that don't really exist? The whole tenor of such boards is that "most" programs are scams, but that if you are really lucky you will find one of the few people in the world who really know about the big-time programs used by the top-50 European banks to generate huge profits.

Several of the posters who now frequent the "due diligence" boards and claim to have "large databases of non-performers" and who build their credibility so that they are contacted by interested investors by private e-mail for advice, are the exact same posters who were around in the mid-1990s and more blatantly promoting these programs. Anybody believe that the leopards have actually changed their spots?

The "asset recovery" scam came several years later; the first I recall seeing that scam was in 1998. Anybody who thinks (1) that a crook who ran a prime bank scam can be rehabilitated and (2) that a crook who ran a prime bank scam has any special ability to chase assets and recover money, is being naive.

How many people associated with the Diligizer board have known criminal pasts? James Kramer-Wilt, Daniel Wright (Burton and Andre scam), Anthony Bukovich (Six Capital Corporation scam), and Steve Fishman (long rap sheet) all qualify.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 9:24:33 AM

By: Shoot I would go one further ...

A year ago I would have pooled money with Lisa and bet that Kramer would never have been involved in such a mess. We would have lost big time. Until it is proven otherwise I still think there is a difference between the purpose of the board and the purpose of those who use the board. For example, I recently had an exchange with someone using the name Clive Harris. He claimed to be an expert on Harry Branch who is someone I am interested in. During the exchange I referred to Clive Harris as a Rent-A-Thug (see posts below). Anyway here is a guy that comes to the board for his own purpose whatever that might be. I don't really know what you call a person like Clive Harris but when I think of an asset recovery scam another name comes to mind. Good ole Tedder who took funds from investors to file lawsuits to recover funds. I don't know of one single lawsuit that resulted in the recovery of funds and the one in Florida was dismissed for lack of prosecution. Even though I don't agree with the idea of Rent-A-Thugs, if I were an investor I would much rather turn someone like Clive Harris loose on HYIP players then give funds to someone like Tedder to file a lawsuit. Regardless of what you call someone like Clive Harris I don't think that his purpose for using the board should be confused with my purpose for using the board and neither of them should be confused with the stated purpose of the board. In my opinion they are all separate.

Just my two cents,
Hunter


SELECT POST FROM EXCHANGE WITH CLIVE HARRIS

Subject: Re: Well then .....
Posted By: Clive Harris - Registered User
Posted At: (2/23/03 5:59:10 pm)
Reply

Yes we were retained by a group of clients, yes we did uncover certain information with regard to Branch and his associates, yes we did involve one of our companies in one of his investment scenarios, we have from that involvement some 17 hours of audio visual material which enabled Mcfaddens to reach an agreement. No we have not involved any law enforcement agencies to date.(providing the agreement is adhered to we won't).

Until the conclusion of this agreement, what your asking is not possible and in any event "that information" if it were to be handed over to you, I doubt you have the resources or the ability to utilise such information to its fullest advantage.
CH


Subject: You are bribing Branch to pay your clients - COOL!!!
Posted By: HuntersHelper - Registered User
Posted At: (2/23/03 6:17:51 pm)
Reply | Edit

Bribe or threatening - take your choice. Maybe next time you should try 1-800-RentAThug.

One of your companies invested with Branch and others hired you to hold documents and audio visual material over Branch so that he would pay them. That hardly qualifies you as an expert on Branch. My choice adjective wouldn't be "expert".

Have a good one,
Hunter


Subject: Please post all court documents related to cases ....
Posted By: HuntersHelper - Registered User
Posted At: (2/23/03 9:36:13 pm)
Reply | Edit

Now finally something that is easy to do. Post the court documents about case(s) filed by Mcfadden against Harry Branch. Would love to see information on any legal action against Branch that is being handled in a court of law.

Also if I am still confused then it is due to your postings. And I quote "yes we did involve one of our companies in one of his investment scenarios"

You now state "Unfortunately we have to move in those circles when we have been retained by clients, its not something we brag about, it happens to be a neccessity for us to be able to do the best for our client"

It looks to me like you moved in those circles when one of your companies invested with Branch. By the way what kind of investment scenario was it that one of your companies invested in?

Have a good one,
Hunter

Link to entire thread.
http://pub17.ezboard.com/fdiligizerduediligence.showMessage?topicID=10760.topic


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 7:13:07 AM

By: David Marchant

It is also worth pointing out that Kramer's voluntary bankruptcy - his second in eight years - was recently dismissed because he failed to turn up at his creditors' meetings. (See below for docket information)

David Marchant



U.S. Bankruptcy Court
Southern District of West Virginia (Parkersburg)
Bankruptcy Petition #: 02-40284 Date filed: 7/8/02
Assigned to: Judge Ronald G. Pearson
Chapter 7, voluntary, individual, no asset
* Parties * * Attorneys *
JAMES LYNN KRAMER-WILT
aka
James Lynn Wilt
3206 1/2 Elm Street
Parkersburg, WV 26104
SSN: 236-68-1766
* Debtor * George Y. Chandler
935-B Market St.; P O Box 2011
Parkersburg, WV 26102
304-485-2918



ROBERT L. JOHNS
Jackson and Kelly PLLC
P.O. Box 553
Charleston, WV 25322
* Trustee *








Docket Proceedings
Date Doc. No. Docket Entry
7/8/02 1 VOLUNTARY PETITION -, all schedules and statements. Assets: $ 274,525.00, Liabilities: $ 66,990.75. Fee Pd. $ 200.00 Receipt # 53974 Ch. 7. (dp) [EOD 07/09/02]
7/9/02 2 First Meeting of Creditors Scheduled For 9:45 9/3/02 At Room 4014, Parkersburg Last Day To Oppose Discharge: 11/4/02 (dp) [EOD 07/09/02]
7/11/02 -- BNC CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE Re: [2-1] First Meeting . # of Notices: 47 were sent out. (auto) [EOD 07/12/02]
9/3/02 3 Rescheduled Meeting of Creditors filed by Trustee Robert L. Johns. First Meeting rescheduled for 9:00 10/1/02 At Room 4014, Parkersburg . (tc) [EOD 09/06/02]
9/11/02 4 NOTICE of Rescheduled Meeting of Creditors filed by George Y. Chandler for Debtor, with CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE. First Meeting rescheduled for 9:00 10/1/02 At Room 4014, Parkersburg. (dv) [EOD 09/11/02] INTERNAL USE ONLY: DISMIS
9/25/02 5 AMENDED SCHEDULES with CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE; Amends Schedule F. Receipt No. 55487. (dv) [EOD 09/25/02]
10/1/02 6 First Meeting NOT Held Due to Debtor's Failure to Appear; Trustee to File Motion to Dismiss. (dv) [EOD 10/10/02] [Edit date 10/10/02]
11/29/02 8 Motion By Trustee Robert L. Johns to Dismiss Case Due to Debtor's Failure to Appear at Scheduled Meetings of Creditors. (dv) [EOD 12/03/02]
12/2/02 7 NOTICE OF HEARING Re: [8-1] Motion by Trustee Robert L. Johns to Dismiss Case Due to Debtor's Failure to Appear at Scheduled Meetings of Creditors; Hearing scheduled for 10:00 1/17/03 at Federal Courtroom, Parkersburg. Transmitted to BNC with Instructions for Mailing. (jp) [EOD 01/23/03]
1/16/03 9 ORDER DISMISSING CASE. [8-1] Motion to Dismiss Case Due to Debtor's Failure to Appear at Scheduled Meetings of Creditors by Robert L. Johns. Transmitted to BNC w/Instructions for Mailing. (dv) [EOD 01/16/03]
1/17/03 -- Hearing NOT Held Re: [8-1] Motion by Trustee to Dismiss Case Due to Debtor's Failure to Appear at Scheduled Meetings of Creditors. Order Dismissing Case was entered 1/16/03. (dv) [EOD 01/27/03]
1/18/03 10 BNC CERTIFICATE OF MAILING RE: [9-1] Order Dismissing Case. (dv) [EOD 01/23/03]


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 2:50:47 AM

By: New Student is Correct

You are right: one of the issues was whether the Diligizer group made "referrals" for due diligence/asset recovery work on HYIP among the circle. To be honest, this allegation never bothered me too much. There clearly was a market for this work among certain of the victims/potential victims, and no particular reason why those helping run the board should be disqualified from pursuing that martket. In any event, the referrals were from anonymous posters, whose motives should always be suspect.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 11:23:25 PM

By: jcolvin2 - Is there more on Wright?

Sooltauq,

I am familiar with the SFO's press release on Burton & Andre, and the comments in it that suggest that Daniel Wright "taught" the two women about HYIP, and set up a Maryland shell corporation. Did the SFO provide you with any new information regarding the scope of Wright's involvement? (I haven't received anything from them other than a referral to the attorney who handled the case for the Crown.) Or did they simply give you a bureaucratic run-around and refuse to say anything contrary to their press release? Are there charging documents, or other public documents that explain Wright's role in more detail or provide the source of the allegations against him?

I am not discounting the SFO's considered position that Wright bore some level of responsibility, but I think I owe it to him (as someone who played a significant role in managing an what I believe was an excellent anti-fraud resource) to examine carefully the facts underlying the allegations - if I can ever get my hands on them. It certainly could be true - Lisa Arden recounted that Wright had engaged in a long search "for the grail."

I know that you and I have had some variant of this conversation before, and you think I'm foolish for not taking the prosecution's word in this case as gospel, but it's my business to be skeptical of the government (and equally skeptical of my clients). Some things simply don't add up - a "shell corporation" in Maryland - wouldn't a tax haven/asset protection jurisdiction have been the more traditional HYIP scammer vehicle?

Hoping to (someday) get to the bottom,
JC


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 10:51:52 PM

By: Sooltauq

Quote: Jay weren't you associated with Lisa Arden?

Absolutely not.

Quote: I thought you were going to set up some sort of Fraud Fighting Foundation.

The Swiss Gnome (not Arden) originally contacted me about being part of a Foundation that he was forming. Later, when the Swiss Gnome backed out and Arden took up the idea as her own, I refused to participate. Otherwise, I have no knowledge of Arden except for a few e-mails, and really couldn't care less about her, except that her revelations about those administrating the Diligizer Board have proven true in spades.

Quote: How many people associated with the Quatloos site have known criminal pasts?

None.

As for Daniel Wright, I have spoken with somebody at the Serious Frauds Office and obtained a letter from them refusing to exculpate him from the deal. Let us recall the Director of the Serious Frauds Office's exact words:

"In the USA they met an American attorney called Daniel Wright. He introduced them a scheme known as a high yield investment programme. This was a way of attracting funds from individuals attracted to select opportunities to achieve higher returns than, say normally available on the stock market. The three of them set up a US registered company called Westgate Development Corporation. The company however was simply a vehicle for channelling money through a bank account in Maryland, USA."

Noting the traditional scam artists tactic of attempting to divert attention from the real story, in this case Kramer-Wilt's conviction . . .


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 8:17:34 PM

By: Jay & Quatloos

Jay weren't you associated with Lisa Arden? I thought you were going to set up some sort of Fraud Fighting Foundation. It looks like that not only Kramer Wilt had a lack of judgement but you as well. How many people associated with the Quatloos site and your proposed foundation have known criminal pasts? Oh well, that's human nature. Hopefully we all learn from our mistakes.

I looked at the quatloos site and saw how much of Kramer Wilt's work is involved. All the stuff from the Treasury site which you have there. It seems a shame that one who has worked so hard to stop fraud can make a brief lapse of judgement and ruin his career.

We should be helping each other out to stop fraud instead of attacking people who give their time freely. If one post on any messageboard or website can stop one crook from taking someone's money then great. When its free even better.





Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 4:06:24 PM

By: jcolvin2 - Bravo Hunter

Hunter,

I couldn't have put it better myself. I appreciate the diverse perspectives and the free information exchange on the boards. Sure some are scoundrels and thieves, but many diligently work hard at ensuring that newbies are not conned into parting with their funds to screwbal HYIP promoters, often answering questions almost as soon as they are asked. Somehow it works - I don't think you could have planned for the result. If the original boards were set up by promoters (and I have no independent knowledge of this), the work done by Renner & Co and others certainly runs contrary to those purposes.

Happy Hunting,

JC


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 3:14:54 PM

By: The purpose of THE BOARDS

PURPOSE OF DILIGIZER

This Board has been created for those who seek information regarding the backgrounds of and/or the experiences others have had with individuals/entities who/which have offered or are offering fraudulent investment transactions relating to unregistered private placements, high-yield investment opportunities, HYIPs, the buying and/or selling of corporate/bank-issued instruments, loans, project financing transactions, or other fraudulent business practices to investors worldwide.


PURPOSE OF Securities & Investment Fraud at the Quatloos site

Open discussion forum about Securties Fraud, including High-Yield Interest Programs, Bank Debenture and Medium-Term Note Programs, Boiler Room operations, and the latest SEC actions.


I don't see a lot of difference in the stated purpose of the boards and there is nothing in either that states they are due diligence boards. If the public opinion of the board is that it is a due diligence board then that just might be a reflection on the type of information that is posted at the board. It is good information in my opinion and your broad comment just simply does not apply to the stated purpose of the board.

YOUR COMMENT
The whole concept of the "due diligence" or "non-performers" boards is nonsensical in the context of why do "due diligence" or locate the "non-performers" for a class of investments that don't really exist? The whole tenor of such boards is that "most" programs are scams, but that if you are really lucky you will find one of the few people in the world who really know about the big-time programs used by the top-50 European banks to generate huge profits.


I think we will always have a difference of opinion about the value of boards like Diligizer. You seem to think they don't serve much purpose and I think they do. I happen to think that investigations of these high-yield programs take way too long and all the while the players are doing their thing. I think it is a good thing that information is being put in the public domain about these people and their activities while investigators are doing their thing.


Your attempt to not critize Paul Renner was a flop in my opinion. He doesn't run any kind of check on those who use the board and because of that it receives visits from all kinds of people. Oddballs like myself who like to find information and post it, investors, players, government folks, asset recovery folks like this Clive Harris guy, reporters, etc. You probably missed it but even Lewis Rivlin showed up one day at the board. I thought it was pretty neat to see his comments no matter what color his stripes that day. In my opinion if some of the people you lumped together in your post want to make 100 posts today at the Diligizer board then that is their right. I just hope it is 100 posts with a lot of information on people involved in high-yield programs.

Have a good one,
Hunter (the defender of all boards!!!!!)


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 2:32:55 PM

By: jcolvin2

I would add that Daniel Wright's role in the Andre and Burton matter has never been clear - he may have simply been a lawyer in the wrong place at the wrong time. Despite requests, I have received nothing from the Crown authorities further illuminating Wright's role in this matter.

Moreover, I understand from his lawyer that Kramer-Wilt did not ultimately plead to the more serious illegal gratuity charge (which I believe entails some level of corruption), but rather to receiving a salary supplement from a non-governmental source (18 USC 209), i.e. a statute that penalizes potential conflicts of interest. I do not think that this can be fairly characterized as fraud. (Here, I would add that the failure to appear at a creditors meeting in a personal bankruptcy is understandable in light of the criminal exposure that was hanging over his head at the time.)


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 2:32:46 PM

By: Jack Morris

I really doubt that based on your RAG SITE, that Wright is a crook of any sorts. I read the SFO article and while it did not shed the best of light on Wright it did not STATE he was/is a crook.

You are still to this day biased on all points. I agree Wilts did a real no no and yes he did get punished but he also has not posted for at least 6-8 months.

So, I say..quit adding the good people that post on Diligizer into this "group" mind set you have.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 10:47:38 AM

By: Wrong .....

I don't doubt the court records and articles posted on the JKW situation any more than I doubt them when they are posted on others but I think that has very little to do with the thread. As a matter of fact it is the posting of court records, SEC Litigation releases, and those kinds of public records that I like to see no matter what board.

As far as your comment about treating JWK better than the rest. I don't know about better than the rest but better than Lisa - YOU GOT THAT DAMN STAIGHT. My critism was only of the comment that compared JWK to Lisa. If you don't see the difference between the two than you are dumber than dumb. Also I don't think you will find a post by me defending the actions of JWK. I would have to go back and reveiw the posts but I don't think anyone has defended his actions but I also don't think recent events erase his accomplishments.

Also my postings aren't an attack on Jay's reputaiton but more a difference of our opinion on the value of certain boards. At least that is how I preceive the postings. And no I don't think Jay's comments are right on the money but we went over that several months ago and yesterday.

Also your comments aren't right on the money. Specifically "you read many articles and you search, search, search and what you find, you post never once doubting that what you have found is gospel truth and you believe to the extreme that what you have found is 100% accurate". Most regular posters at the Diligizer board, including myself, like to find as many references as possible to support information that is posted on a person or company. Prior to replying to a post I look at several sources of information not just one. It inlcudes court records, background information, SEC litigation releases, company information, contracts that get posted, information available at sites, etc. Usually a combination of that kind of information will give an accurate picture of the activities of a person or company.

Hunter







Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 10:05:13 AM

By: Really, listen to yourselves

I think people are hypocrits. The Diligizer board was always used to attack, point out the wrong of others, sit in judgement, cast stones, harrass, critisize and more. I think it was used as a "wolves in sheeps clothing paradise" to attract just what it was designed to attract. Now that the team was exposed people attempt to come to the rescue of reputations. Why? Don't you all remember those friends and associates of all the ones that were being attacked anonymously trying to help salvage the reputation of the one being mentioned? You did not mind it then when it was someone elses fiend, associate, or what not,. but suddenly you do now? I remember many of you saying "once a crook always a crook". But now because it was JKW suddenly it was a good guy. Well let me ask you something. Is he really to be treated any better than the rest? A wrong is a wrong period. You can't seperate a wrong because you liked him as a person. You can't try to defend his wrong just because you think he was better than all others because he helped to fight fraud. Don't you get it? This is why it makes it so much more disgusting. He could attack people for wrong but he can't be attacked for wrong? Really some of these posts are very foolish. As far as Jays reputation goes, he is point blank "right on the money" with his comments! You want to blame him for what the SFO commented on? It is very foolish that day in and day out you people look at court documents, you read many articles and you search, search, search and what you find, you post never once doubting that what you have found is gospel truth and you believe to the extreme that what you have found is 100% accurate because it was from a government agency or some court record that has accusations in it. But, now you want to doubt an article or docket JUST because it was someone you know. I think you have it backwards. The truth hurts and when it does people act foolishly!


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 8:42:07 AM

By: Jack Morris

Here, Here Hunter.

That was my point as well. I also looked up the Fishman C&D that Jay has on his site, there is NO C&D issued in that state against Steve Fishman. And I'm pretty sure Fishman would have wrote to Jay and told him just that. Did Jay look into it to see if he was wrong, I doubt it. Just left it there.

Jay, Please review your article and if you can find the C&D for the state you have listed for Fishman then email it to me

at cybercrimes@vicemail.net

Jack


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 7:22:14 AM

By: People at least be honest

The issue isn't about Kramer it is the same thing it has always been and that is this issue of the board being a big asset recovery scam. And I mean big. I think one of the old posts had some multi-million dollar figure mentioned.

Start with you Sooltauq. You accuse some of diverting attention away from Kramer. Hell man go look at your post that I responded to about the board and you have one brief statement at the bottom that mentions Kramer. Even then you lump him together with others which I think was done for one reason and it wasn't to focus on Kramer.


Few follow up posts on others besides Kramer.


And now the thread is right back to where it was several months ago.


You want to talk facts. Then look at the documents available on Kramer. Mine must have been modified becasue I didn't see one single comment about him referring anyone to any asset recovery person. Odd he wouldn't do such a thing when there are millions to be made and that is what Lisa claimed those folks did.


And yes what about all the other people whose names were posted over and over again at the boards and all the complaints against their really big asset recovery scams. Don't forget it is some multi-million dollar figure. One would think it was the biggest scam in the world if you read the old posts by Lisa.


No one should be fooled. All kinds of people visit these boards - some good, some bad, and some really really bad - but until you separate the purpose of the visitors from the purpose of the board then this subject will come up over and over and over again. I think it all boils down to this asset recovery thing and some people, like Sooltauq, not liking the past history of some of the people who helped out with the board. I know one thing we are all going to grow old and grey exchanging posts on this one because you are sticking to your guns and I am sticking to mine. The board is a great source of information and Paul Renner does a good job running the board. I don't think it was part of any asset recovery scam. I don't think Paul Renner or Krmaer or some of the others have made millions recovering assets. AND I don't swallow the garbage posted by that habitual liar without proof.

And that post about Lisa being buddies with Kramer and crooks of a feather flocking together does a complete disgrace to Kramer. That lady has a long long history of criminal activity and accomplished absolutely nothing with her life. Contributed nothing to society and was a drain on the system. On the other hand Kramer became an expert in HYIP fraud, gave many many houre to help a lot of people, and is a benefit to society. Did he make a mistake - you better belive it and even without being sentenced I am sure he has paid for it. Never been there but I don't imagine it is easy to be at the top and fall because you got a lot longer to fall than most.

Now let's get back to the REAL subject which is the millions made by Diligizer and the biggest scam in the history of the world. Not sure about others but I kept a whole mess of those old posts which will be real helpful as this thread grows becasue I won't have to type so much.

Back to you,
Hunter





Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 12:23:44 AM

By: Guest

The issue isn't posters (who can be anybody), but administrators (who must be given permission). Whoever made Lisa or any of these other crooks an administrator made very poor judgments or was a crook too.

They have deliberately erased the names of known scammers from their Black List.

What is up with putting an HYIP scammer on the White List?


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/5/2003 11:30:28 PM

By: Guest

Lisa was actually one of the diligizers and buddy-buddy with Kramer-Wilt and the rest until they turned on each other. The Lisa-haters conveniently forget this in their venom.

Crooks of a feather flock together.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 3:30:29 PM

By: TV scripts at OBNR board

That is a creative idea but not a very creative script. While I can easily see JKW helping this person I can't even begin to understand how he could rationalize accepting the money. On that red neck show that is broadcast on several stations in the mornings around the country (OK maybe just the Southern part of the country) they would refer to it as a very very big brain fart. I know everyone does it to a certain degree. The person who runs a red light and justifies it. The person who cheats a little on their taxes and justifies it. The person who runs an HYIP and justifies it by claiming they thought the program was real. BUT you have really got to jump through some loops to be an expert in the HYIP field and justify accepting the money. I simply think this is one of those times when a good person who helped a lot of people threw good judgment out the window and made a very very big and costly mistake. It is really sad and hopefully he has the support of a lot of friends and family and will get past this lapse in judgment, pay whatever price for the mistake, and get on with life.

That is juse the way I see it.

Hunter


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 2:52:51 PM

By: Not very creative

Nah....

Sheesh...


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 2:29:24 PM

By: Double Standard

It's funny watching people trying to bend over backwards to make him sound sympathetic. Maybe the name should be changed to "The Hypocrits Board".

O' Defenders of the Downtrodden, let's next hear about poor Rudi Toereins and how he was unwittingly and innocently caught up in unfortunate circumstances!

There is no such thing as being half a criminal.




Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 2:14:05 PM

By: Elegant Solution?

Here is my fictionalized vision of JKW - the TV Movie (Start the violins):
A good man goes to work as an attorney/adviser for the Bureau of Public Debt. He becomes a specialist on HYIP. He gets a feel for how the schemes operate, and knows how much money passes through the hands of promoters. He develops fairly extensive contacts throughout this world, on both sides of the fence. Through no fault of his own, he incurs large obligations (perhaps an elderly parent or a disabled child), and is forced into bankruptcy. His job takes him to exotic locations, where he stays in expensive hotels, e.g., Raffles in Singapore, and hobnobs with bankers and others whose expense accounts far exceeds his government per diem. One person who has been in contact with him sporadically (Gerry) starts picking his brain about HYIP promoters. JKW tries to tow the line and keep this person from the real sharks, but nonetheless provides info. Gerry goes to his money man, Wheeler, and says, we should give this guy something for his trouble. $10,000 is given in two $5,000 payments. JKW accepts the money, rationalizing that he was doing nothing more than being a square shooter, and providing correct information. It's hard to tell a friend no, especially one from East Texas. Ultimately, BoA gets suspicious about a $2 million account in the name of Beta Foundation. The FBI is contacted, and JKW also gets a call from BoA. JKW allays suspicions, and then helps guide Gerry and Wheeler through the process to be sure that the FBI will not object to the return of money to Wheeler. The money is returned on March 14, 2002. Gerry tells Wheeler: "This guy saved our bacon. We really should do something nice for him." The next day another $5,000 is paid to JKW. Again, it is hard to refuse thanks from a friend, and JKW accepts the funds. A few months later, the thing blows up and JKW pays a heavy price for these rationalizations. (Fade out)

I have trouble getting too far outside the box. I'm sure your solution is far more creative than mine.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 1:34:20 PM

By: Can anyone think outside of the box?

I am dismayed at the continual lack of effective utilization of all the brain power on this board. Instead of oxydizing all this sugar in an attempt to villify Claw and rationalized why he must be an international criminal mastermind, why doesn't someone actually thread the facts of Claw's life together and come up with a plausable explaination of how a good guy like DeWitt got into this mess?

I am sure that some bright boy or girl can string together all the facts published on Claw's life and come up with the same answer I did.




Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 10:50:07 AM

By: Another Defense of Diligizer

I think that you are inappropriately lumping posters together in your criticism of those who have defended the Diligizer Board in this thread.
(1) JKW. I started this thread by posting the information on Kramer-Wilt. The guy pled guilty to a felony of receiving money from a HYIP player (John Allen Wheeler). The allegations in the indictment were that he actually intervened with the FBI and the Bank of America, which were considering what to do with $2 million in a suspicious bank account, and shortly thereafter received a $5,000 payment (he had received $10,000 from Wheeler previously). He did not direclty defraud people, but his actions may have postponed the time at which the government shut the HYIP down, to the detriment of the investors. Although I personally had no interaction with him, some knew him and expressed sorrow and dismay. No one has minimized the magnitude of the crime, or suggested it was all a mistake or misunderstanding.
(2) Daniel Wright. The SFO press release on Burton and Andre allegations was mentioned again in the thread, in the context of suggesting that Diligizer was composed of thieves. I am the only one who asked if there were additional facts about this situation. This is consistent with my prior position - there are some things about the press release that do not add up. Unlike many on the boards, I have never taken press releases or indictments as the unalloyed truth - I am an attorney with a tax controversy practice, and skepticism of government allegations is a professional necessity. (I would add here that I suspect the Diligizer Board of atempting to hide the SFO's identification of Wright. The link does not refer to Wright by name, but as "a U.S. national and resident against whom no charges were brought."
(3) Diligizer Board. No one ever said it was a scrupulously fair forum. The theory which seemed to work was that the more information available to individual investors - prior trouble with the law, bankruptcies, etc., would help investors make better decisions. An informed market is an efficient market. In my observation, there was little solicitation that escaped unchallenged. Lisa Arden has stated that she was asked to refer victims to Bukovich for recovery services, and that some may have been refered to others, including Wright. I have no idea if there were any takers who paid any money for the proferred services. In any event, to my knowledge, no one has complained that they were victims of an asset recovery scam masterminded by the "Diligizer Group." Unless they were doing something improper, I see nothing wrong with those associated with Board also offering their services. As an example, when I had a client that expressed an interest in a Bermuda corporation, I contacted Jay, in part because of favorable experiences with him on the Boards. I do not think that Jay was improperly using the Boards to promote his services.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 6:36:55 PM

By: JKW - Choosing Lesser of 2 Evils?

With respect to whether JKW was helping people, the $2 million account was in the name of Beta Foundation, one of whose principals was Tom Plummer. BoA was making inquiries to the FBI and JKW about Plummer (along with Wheeler). Plummer and Beta had been the subject of a brief thread on Diligizer in July and August of 2001 (4th Archive) in which Claw was a participant. Recognizing that the money might have fallen into the hands of a true scammer, JKW might have thought that having the money returned to Wheeler (who JKW might have thought to be merely misguided as to the possible existence of HYIP and not actively evil) was not necessarily a bad outcome. Again, this is not to excuse the very poor judgment shown by JKW in keeping the money.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 6:32:37 PM

By: Common Sense

This is only the program that he got caught on.

One must question whether there were other programs that Kramer-Will "introduced" his "interested investors" into who simply never came forward, but for which he received undisclosed "gift" gratuities for referring into the programs.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 6:00:21 PM

By: A Private Dick

$15K is not enough money to even risk a career over unless one has a real strong need for the money.

JKW had two bankruptacies. For all you other private dicks out there, I would think this is a clue.

JKW loved to help people. I think his choice of keeping Wheeler's gift for his help was bad mistake and an error in judgement which was influenced his pending bankruptacy.

Getting to the truth is not defending him, BTW.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 4:18:55 PM

By: Where KJW learned of "investors"

At paragraphs 1 and 2, the indictment states "in the course of his duties at the Bureau of Public Debt, Kramer-Wilt became aware of the identities of numerous individuals who were interested in participating in high yield investment.
2. One of these individuals was a man named John Wheeler who lived in Nacogdoches, Texas."

Wheeler was the person running the underlying ponzi. I will send you a copy of the Indictment in PDF format if you send a request to my email address. (I faxed and emailed copies to OBNR yesterday.)
The Diligizer connection was not mentioned, although the BPD clearly was aware of JKW's role in August or September. If Wheeler had come to JKW's attention through his extra-mural activities on the Diligizer Board, I suspect that would have been raised.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 3:59:00 PM

By: Common Sense

When David posts the indictment and other documents from this case it may answer some questions.

It could also be that this wasn't the first time Kramer-Wilt did something like this, but just the first time he got caught. Note the portion in asteriks from the Lufkin Daily News article:

"Wheeler was indicted a month ago by a federal grand jury for operating a Ponzi scheme that cost investors an estimated $23 million, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office.

"Through his work, Kramer-Wilt ***** became familiar with the identities of individuals who were interested in participating in high-yield investments,***** including Wheeler, according to prosecutors."

Anybody want to guess W H E R E Kramer-Wilt "became familiar" with possible investors?



Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/7/2003 9:16:33 AM

By: Nice Try

See response to the thread you started; Jay/Quatloos was quoting what the DILIGIZER board had put up about Fishman and then deleted prior to putting this habitual criminal on their "White List".

Check out http://www.theta.com/fishman/ which Jay/Quatloos links to for more background on Fishman.

Or are you Fishman and mad because your life of crime is now on the internet for all to enjoy?


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/7/2003 9:07:05 AM

By: David Marchant

Is the part about Fishman being sentenced to five years in prison for fraud and obstruction of justice accurate?

David Marchant


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/7/2003 1:29:41 AM

By: Emily Windeschgraetz

Quatloos doesn't care about whether what he writes about is true or not.

The Cease and Desist Order on 6/21/2001 was against Mark Fisher, not Steven Fishman. But does Jay Quatloos care? Of course not! He makes things up as he goes along if it serves his purposes of yellow journalism.

Here is the real quotation from the Pennsylvania Securities Commission > Enforcement Division > Cease and Desist Orders from 2001. Check it for yourself!

===============================================================

Pennsylvania Halts Securities Violations by
Spanish Firm, Income-Ventures
Harrisburg, PA, June 21, 2001 - -The Pennsylvania Securities Commission issued a Summary Order to Cease and Desist against Income-Ventures and Mark Fisher, the billing and administrative contact for Income-Ventures, to halt the offer and sale of unregistered securities in the Commonwealth. The respondents are located at the same address in Marbella, Malaga, Spain.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 8:43:13 PM

By: Sweetheart Deal? Sentencing Perspective

JKW was charged with (1) receiving an illegal gratuity (18 USC 201(c)), and (2) receiving compensation from non-govt sources (18 USC 209). He pled to the latter, which is a felony with a maximum penalty of 5 years, rather than the former which had a maximum penalty of 2 years.

In any event, the sentence under the federal sentencing guidelines is likely to be less than 2 years. A conviction for receiving improper compensation (18 USC 209) has a standard sentence of probation. However, the guideline governing 18 USC 209 (USSG 2C1.3) has a cross-reference that says the judge is to apply the "illegal gratuity" guideline (18 USC 2C1.2) if he determines by a preponderance that an illegal gratuity was made. There is an adjustment in the sentencing guidelines for bribery/illegal gratuities that provides a signficant enhancement for "high level government officials," and under the case law it is possible that JKW would meet this definition. There is also an enhancement for the receipt of multiple gratuities in USSG 2C1.2. A standard sentence for the illegal gratuity count could be 15-21 months.

The plea deal was probably structured to give JKW an opportunity to avoid illegal gratuity treatment under the guidelines. Much will depend on how Probation, the US Attorneys Office and the Court analyze the conduct. This was not a sweetheart plea by any stretch of the imagination: JKW's career has been ruined and he has significant exposure under the Sentencing Guidelines.

I have no reason to paint a sympathetic or a non-sympathetic portrait of Mr. Kramer-Wilt. Whether he was acting out of kindness or self-interest when he intervened with BoA and the FBI may never be known. What JKW has admitted is that he took money, and this was a serious (criminal!) offense.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 7:53:55 PM

By: Lessor of Two Evils

"Recognizing that the money might have fallen into the hands of a true scammer, JKW might have thought that having the money returned to Wheeler (who JKW might have thought to be merely misguided as to the possible existence of HYIP and not actively evil) was not necessarily a bad outcome. Again, this is not to excuse the very poor judgment shown by JKW in keeping the money."

One might assume that the money was spent, no? But I agree, very poor judgement. And possibly one that JKW regrets.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/6/2003 7:47:24 PM

By: Guest

Rather overlooks that he was indicted and plead guilty.

Plus, this has many of the hallmarks of a plea deal, meaning that he dodged the more serious charge to spare the prosecutor the time and trouble of a trial.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/8/2003 9:53:03 PM

By: I agree with R

Does anyone know how Lisa Arden came into play? Seems that people like JKW and Wright (the two most repspected and knowlegable posters) would not have need for a woman such as that. Let's not forget that they knew her past. She never made that a secret at all. I think people should question the reasons behind pulling her in on the team. People don't just do that with out a reason. R,,, I can identify exactly with what you are saying and I think you have the most valid point here!It is one I have raised in my mind long ago.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/8/2003 7:44:40 PM

By: Guest

That's only if you assume that Kramer-Wilt, Wright and the others were bona fide "fraud fighters".

Professional con men are smooth, very smooth, and it wouldn't be the first time that professional cons held themselves out to be a fraud fighter to both improve their chances of hitting the big con and covering their arses when things went bad.

You are totally naive if you think that Kramer-Wilt, Wright and the others were actually lily pure and just got caught up in the wrong crowd. What they did to the "fraud fighting community" was totally of their own making, else you are giving too much credence to a petty crook like Lisa who they really thought would fit right in with their team (how soon you forget how they personally wooed her and even gave her administrator privileges even though they knew she had unsuccessfully tried to run an HYIP scam on her own).


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:07 PM

Posted: 3/8/2003 4:19:29 PM

By: Piss poor judgment - don't agree

I don't agree with your comment:

"I would submit that it is exactly the same piss-poor judgment that caused JKW to allow the scorpion to get close to him, that also caused him to accept fees for DD services "on the side" from equally crooked people. Bad judgment is apparently culturally widespread, and one of the major reasons that HYIP fraud can prosper in the first place."

I can't fault JKW for trying to help people and that includes Lisa. I am sure that the people who helped Lisa had no idea the kind of person they were helping. When someone is hleping people over the internet I think it is hard to tell if the person is a good person, bad person, or really evil person. Not to sure about JKW but if I tried to figure out if someone who was requesting information was good or bad I would never get around to sharing information with anyone. Lisa excelled at making people feel comfortalbe helping her. She ranks right up there with the best of the best manipulators. If you were smart enough not to be conned by her then that just means you detected her true character sooner than others. That may just mean that you are better at reading people you interact with over the internet but I can't fault others for not being able to do that especially when they are trying to help someone like Lisa. I don't think any conclusions can be drawn from the interactions anyone had with Lisa. It just isn't anything that people have a lot of experience with unless one is a psychiatrist. Just how many encounters in ones life does a person have with someone like Lisa to help prepare them for that kind of thing - probably none to a very few. It is just too bad that she was able to drive a wedge in the fraud fighting community. And make no mistake about it she did accomplish that. I guess the devil is on the side of the fraudsters.

Have a good one,
Hunter