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Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/2/2003 2:13:37 PM

By: good

Hope they will answer all questions and GIFSA accepts their plan so we can sign documents and get access to funds this week finally.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/2/2003 11:10:13 AM

By: LP

Just received a message that the bank is preparing answers to FAQ that should be posted later today.


Internal Administrator
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011
Joined: 10/12/2010
Posts: 5780


Posted: 6/1/2003 7:14:22 PM

By: David Marchant

... rather than start a new thread, please add your message to one of the numerous threads that have already been started.

New threads which do not add anything new or significant and whose apparent aim is just to keep this topic permanently at the top of this Message Board will be deleted.

David Marchant


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/3/2003 7:29:04 AM

By: to: rene

It is very possible that plan will be accepted by gifsa this week and funds available. I don't think you are a customer, and thats why you don't have latest info. It is very anoying looking at posts from people who knwo NOTHING about situation, just speculations.

stev


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/3/2003 5:33:30 AM

By: LP

I don't think I wrote something like that I would expect an access to funds this week. I am perhaps naive (having deposit in Crozier) but not that much. What I would like to achieve here is to create a louder voice to force the bank to communicate better - at least. Any idea how to manage it is appreciated.
LP


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/3/2003 5:08:35 AM

By: rene

... get access to funds this week finally ...

from time to time some kind of naivity makes me not less than... angry!

do you really believe what you write?

good luck... you need it

r.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/3/2003 3:52:31 AM

By: LP

Neither did I. Since they promissed more info yesterday and they didn't deliver, I have asked them for a daily short notice about the development. I think that a minimum they can (have to) do is to communicate with us. What is your opinion? LP


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/3/2003 1:01:19 AM

By: Mark

I didnt even receive them yet.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/2/2003 4:46:36 PM

By: who signed?

Hi !

Did anyone sign already document to move part of deposit to Trust?

Stev


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/3/2003 7:00:34 PM

By: To the million dollar beliver

For your sake and others I hope you are correct. Informed? Indeed I am. The next time you "talk" to either of the clowns (Johanssen of Fredriksson) in Spain or Luxembourg ask them where the CrozFunds (ie: thieir guaranteed investment funds) are and how they can be redeemed. The next time you talk to anyone in St. Lucia including the bank manager ask them when the last time they talked to the clowns and what they think of them. The concensious is the two mucchkins have buried their heads in the sand. Because of a good Offshore Provider and adequate warning by the same, combined with a dilligent staff I escaped just under the wire. I do not believe there is larceny involved just poor mangement and a businees model that did not work. It is the location of and ability to redeem the CrozFund run by slim and slam that I question.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/3/2003 4:04:53 PM

By: believer


i have spoken with peter and GIFSA
several times over the last few
weeks and he has responded to my emails. perhaps he
is ignoring messages from smaller depositors in order
to focus on task at hand. (we have over 1 mil frozen)

yes a major portion of the money might be gone if liquidated... but i would not say that peter has abandoned the troops. peter's group has a lot to lose as well if the restructuring plan does not work.

status is GIFSA has responded to general plan outline with
request for more information from peter. appears they want more information (financials and details
of trust structuring) to be provided to depositors so they may make a more informed decision. BC has 5 days to respond
to GIFSA questions.

GIFSA seems open to other restructuring options as well
if the BC depositors do not agree to the plan.

I still have high hopes that it can be saved...

telling oneself the money is gone might be helpful
from the perspective of moving one's business forward,
however it does not seem productive to further inflame
worry and doubt amung depositors with uninformed
postings.

believer


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/3/2003 2:42:06 PM

By: rene

stev:

you constantly insist of talking about a "plan"... even after - i assume - having read my posting concerning the fact that NONE of my clients running bc-accounts never saw any documents on their desks

if you could transmit me anything you think could be helpful i would be extremely thankful

r.
fax switzerland ++41-41-760-43-03


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/3/2003 12:35:44 PM

By: Your money is gone - take the hit

Your money is gone. If you doubt that try getting ahold of Johanssen or Per Fredrikkson. They ran the CrozFunds(Perform Fund, etc.) through CrozTrade. Those funds are supposedly invested in various financial instruments throughout the World. Try redeeming the investments in those funds. Call St. Lucia or Grenada and ask the managers when they last spoke to those two clowns. Send them emails and see if they answer. You will find that both have burried there heads in the sand, abandoned their troups in the trenches and ran for the high country. Really.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/3/2003 10:26:26 AM

By: stev

if u knew plan details you would know what i am talking about.

stev


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/3/2003 9:35:11 AM

By: Observer

Unfortunately depositors will not have access to their funds this week, or next.

The heart of the matter is that Bank Crozier appear to be insolvent.

If they were solvent, the entire 'plan' etc would not be necessary.



Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/3/2003 8:22:04 AM

By: rene

... and thats why you don't have latest info ...

great reply after reading ON THIS BOARD about people publicly asking about documents that - as it seems - should become signed but never arrived on the "customers" desk

yes, you are right - WE OURSELVES never were clients of this "bank" (i posted quite clearly why!) - but we manage 4 portfolios of bc-clients, who - just to support the ones waiting for documents!!! - also never received anything "to become" signed

nothing more to be added... i wish you the best of luck... really!!!

r.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/5/2003 2:24:57 PM

By: Tax Man

It is amazing how easy all of you whinners have made it easy for us TAX people to track your whereabouts. As all of you are Offshore to avoid paying taxes. We are now and have been tracking your e-mails and soon you will be hearing from us. Have your checkbooks ready!!


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/5/2003 12:01:23 PM

By: Crozfund redemptions anyone?

Has anyone on here redeemed (requested/recv'd/or been denied)funds from one of three Crozfunds? I have a tiny amount with one of them...sent inquiries in Jan. and recv'd reply that they were 'reorganizing.' Subsequent correspondence indicated that these funds were segregated from bank assets, (which should be simple to do if they are not a scam).

Anyone tried to get $ back?

PS- I believe that they indicated they had around 300mm in total in all funds.....big numbers to hide if GIFSA is looking for a piggybank to tap and they are indeed unsegregated assets.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/5/2003 11:24:09 AM

By: David Marchant

I have no evidence that Bank Crozier has been involved in any wrongdoing and nor does PricewaterhouseCoopers and, I would suggest, nor do you.

If you do, please email it to me at editor@kycnews.com, fax it to +1 (305)675-5798 or mail it to 123 S. E. 3rd Avenue, #173, Miami, FL 33131.

When I write articles, I like to base them on considerably more than an active imagination.

It is exceptionally moronic to think that the only reason a company runs into financial trouble is due to fraud.

David Marchant


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/5/2003 9:18:28 AM

By: newengland

Randall, You view the world through rose coloured glasses. Marchant is an opportunist and writes a decidely biased newsletter on offshore scams etc. If he were truly an "investigative reporter" then why has he not put "Crozier" in his infamous "HAll of Shame " ???.

His reporting of the "facts" has been quite timid, based on his aggresive styles when it came to other Grenada banks.

..... not quite as sensational ... don't you think?


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/5/2003 2:20:45 AM

By: Randell - to the "car" guy.

Leave poor David alone. He did not do anyting. A lot of people here seem to want to shoot the messenger. If David were bias he certainly would not alow most of these posts. If you have a good Off Shore Provider they are in the know and can advise you properly and ahead of time since they get the rumors in Grenada and elswwhere. St. Lucia was a no brainer. When a Bank gets in trouble in one jurisdiction it generally follows it to others (different charter and all). Anyone with any sense would have run from St. Lucia the day the debit card hold was put on. The big queston remains where are the CrozFunds run by Slim and Slam out of Spain and Luxembourg with the "...@crozfin" email addressess. Even those forwarned got
stuck with the Invested Funds (Perform, etc) becuae no one knew how to redeem them and Slim and Slam (Per & Peter) weren't talking. Again, it was not the staff at either location that were responsible. They, including the managers could not get any information from the dynamic duo. To date no one knows how to redeem the CrozFunds held at CrozTrade and run by Per and Peter.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/5/2003 12:27:33 AM

By: dude, where's my car?


pardon me, you are quite well "informed" indeed.

wish i had an angel of an offshore provider whispering
sweet nothings in my ear. would have been worth
a lot to me, a friend and big favor for life.

(listening david?)

just hoping to eek out 23% asap so i can put it
to work and begin the reconstruction of my own biz.

should have some more info by friday. hopefully some
actual financials showing what and where the assets are.

im still open to swedish meatball miracles. but...

its a pretty tall order. good luck and godspeed


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/7/2003 3:31:28 AM

By: carcass for the pickin


too bad that last(the other million dollar guy)
post got deleted... twas a good rant indeed.
go get em tiger!

still no news from peter and BC regarding further trust structure details, GIFSA questions, and financials on the plan. how can they possibly expect large depositors to sign on with virtually no information regarding the actual details of the plan?

the plan appears to be more of a self-liquidation
strategy to unregulated offshore entity rather than an actual reconstruction. if there is new equity (which peter claims there is, and PWC says there isnt) then why not
reboot the bank in grenada and keep creditors pecking
order intact? my understanding is that becoming a trustee would lessen the ranking and rights of creditors, perhaps allow for the BC related parties to be first in line. GIFSA wants some protection for the depositors, split the pie up within the courts where information is public and through the proper channels.

while I do think that peter would be in a better
position to recover the assets at less expense,
the big question in my mind is whether he is competant enough to follow through. based on the demonstration of mismanagement
of the funds (why would a bank invest 15% of holdings
into a high risk tech stock deal?)(plus other things i dont
want to go into here) and based on how they have
handled the crisis month, im not so sure im willing to
take that bet with the proposed structure...

if liquidated the initial cash payout (amounts similar to peters plan) should occur relatively quickly, then the other assets recovery will drag on for a long time.

its my understanding that the two lawsuits are:
one of the bigger depositors. and the conroller of st lucia filed a lawsuit trust claim against grenada.

my poke at david was certainly not intended to blame him or shoot the messenger, merely a suggestion that playing both sides of the fence might not be the best strategy for an offshore investigative reporter. but really i have no idea whether the talk in other forums about davids relationship with crozier and the various dog barking articles on the web
about david are true. i will refrain from such unsupported
flippant remarks in future.

meanwhile back at the ranch... my business is ruined
and 6 years of work down the drain because of this.
noone to blame but myself for keeping too many eggs
in the crozier basket, and not doing continual research
and keeping myself up to date. could have avoided the whole mess if i had seen info about the controller in july
(and known just how serious a red flag that is).

no more small private offshore banks for this turkey.

live and learn...





Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/6/2003 7:45:02 PM

By: worried

Just wondering would one of the two largest depositors with BC Grenada be BC St. Lucia? And if so how hard is it going to be to get the money since we were using them as an intermediary bank and our funds aren't just considered general deposits? Thanks in advance to all those that answer and good luck to all of us BC clients/depositors whether we be with Grenada or St. Lucia.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/6/2003 7:44:27 PM

By: Cyrille Emery

So, what we have constantly outlined here (Rene, Ol Hap and Sooltauq and myself) is happening...
Large creditors are not waiting on BC to turn up with a good reorganisation plan and are suing... Too bad for small depositors as I am sure their request includes a freeze of BC assets worldwide...Now this is a process that is going to last for a long time...
The position of Grenada officials is also not tenable because they should have acted before such event with a view to protect (small) depositors. Their role is not passive and to censor or approve a plan but rather to be proactive.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/6/2003 7:43:32 PM

By: jan

They don't sound receptive to the plan. It sounds as if they are skeptical on why the trust has to be in Nevis vs. Grenada and that Crozier is just trying to buy time. The gentleman who I spoke with, who deals with offshore accounts, said that he doesn't believe that it is fraud; just sheer stupidity and incompetence (I am paraphrasing, he was much more diplomatic). He said the two largest depositors of Crozier are not signing off on the Trust proposal and are suing the bank to get their funds returned. Someone I know wrote an email to Johansson today:

What are you trying to put the trust in Nevis? I talked with Grenada officials today and they said that was part of the issue. Also, if you have enough monies to cover depositors, why don't you just add it to the bank in Grenada? This is a very confusing proposal that you have outlined. I think you need to provide more clarification.
Also, I understand the two largest depositors are suing you and are not agreeing to the trust proposal. Can you please comment on that.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/5/2003 7:14:49 PM

By: To Crozfund Redem / Tax Man / Chowder

Crozfund man, Trying to find those funds is a total exercise in futility. No one in the entire Crozier system knows where those fund are, what they are invested or how to redeem them including the bank manager in Grenada and St. Lucia (even if original invested monies into the CrozFunds originate form accounts at those banks). Slim & Slam in Luxembourg and Spain are of no help and they are supposed to be the fund managers.

Tax Man. You don't know what you are talking about. IN fact you are way out of your league here with your moronic post.

Chowder. You need to quit blaming poor David. Again, if he was bias he would delete thies posts and bury his head in the sand. He did not do anything. The one word lacking in all reports,
freezes, audits, etc. is "Fraud." Slim & Slam may be totally confused and befuddled and be poor fund managers, terrible communicators, and managers by proscastination but Fraud has not been displayed.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/5/2003 4:09:43 PM

By: David Marchant

Re. "I never mentioned fraud, but wouldn't a scathing expose on the inexperience of BC's management make good reading for your newsletter suscribers?"

You never specifically used the word 'fraud' but that is clearly what you were implying. You stated I should put Crozier in the "Hall of Shame" and compared Crozier with Grenada's other offshore banks, virtually all of which had little or no capital and perpetrated crude frauds, e.g. FIBG, Imperium Bank, Cambridge International Bank & Trust.

Unless you know something that I or PricewaterhouseCoopers don't - and clearly you don't - then your view is baseless. If you do have evidence of Crozier committing fraud, please send it to me, I will investigate it and report on it if it has substance.

OffshoreAlert specializes in exposing fraud, not analyzing the performance of management. Thus our motto is "The Pen is Mightier than the Fraud", not "The Pen is Mightier than poor investment decisions."

Articles about Bank Crozier are available in our Story Library and you can also purchase a recent asset freeze order against the bank in Grenada. The troubles of Bank Crozier which you imply are not being reported are actually being reported in OffshoreAlert but you don't appear to have read them.

Perhaps $10 per credit is out of your price range.

David Marchant


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/5/2003 2:42:20 PM

By: newengland

David, I am not involved with BC at all, but did enjoy watching everyone make praise (including yourself) of how proffessiaonlly managed the bank was and how great the corporate leadership was. In fact I think that BC's advertising was a little deceptive from their website, making such statements that" the bank was part of the worldwide Crozier group backed by the asets of Luxemburg (sic) etc.) This gives the unsophisticated, the impression that somehow their deposits were protected.

Obviously, you were duped (or not) into beleiving that the bank's management had suffcient experience and professional knowledge to manage the affairs of the bank in a prudent and conservative manner. Your last posting suggest that you blame the whole affair on mismanagement or to market timing (?). I never mentioned fraud, but wouldn't a scathing expose on the inexperience of BC's management make good reading for your newsletter suscribers?


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/8/2003 10:11:25 AM

By: Okke Ornstein

In this whole affair more questions are being asked than answered. Like:

When Marchant in an interview with "Offshore Finance" said that he raised several hundreds of thousands of dollars to start OBNR, who were these investors?

Does Crozier have (partial) ownership of OBNR?

How did Crozier compensate Marchant for his writings for their web site and/or newsletter? If Marchant claims he did that for free, can he prove that unusual statement?

Do Marchant and/or OBNR have accounts with Bank Crozier?

Or are these questions offensive?

Okke Ornstein


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/8/2003 12:10:52 AM

By: Ol' Hap

This is so sad all the way around.
Noone's post just made me so sad.
Whether incompetence or fraud, the result is the same. People are, at best, woefully uninformed and unable to access *their* money, and at worst, losing their shirts.
And the bankers? If this is "merely" incompetence, then they must feel just about as low as it gets about now.
Some lessons are more difficult to learn than others.
For what it's worth, you're all in my thoughts.
Best of luck,
Hap


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/7/2003 3:22:42 PM

By: OS Observer

I find it extremely perplexing that depositors believe the "situation" can be rectified.

The long and short of it is that Bank Crozier is insolvent

Their obligations to depositors exceed the assets/cash on hand.

The story of a possible restructure, conversion to a trust etc. is a classic dilatory tactic commonly referred to as "lulling investors"


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/7/2003 2:18:14 PM

By: worried

Noone that was quite an informative post...thank you! I think that we're all feeling your pain right now and I for one couldn't agree with you more in that should of done more homework and seen this coming a mile away, especially since I'm a St. Lucia depositor. You know what really makes this whole situation so damn frustrating is that neither Peter, the controllers, employees of the banks etc. are giving us any kind of regular update as to what's actually happening. I'm not saying I need an hour to hour or even a day to day update but at least once a week would be really great and would really help reassure clients/depositors that managment is working hard to rectify the problem at hand. It's really unfortunate I've got to get a good 90% from message boards like these and others. If the bank ever does get back on it's feet how are we as clients supposed to trust these guys and stay with them when the service as of late has been really dismal???


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/7/2003 5:15:09 AM

By: LP

Yes, this is exactly the point...


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/7/2003 4:13:22 AM

By: Trust acceptation?

Anyone here agreed to move depost to Trust already? They asked me twice, then after my questions their said that FAQ would be posted and still notining. How i can agree if i dont see more details? I am generally support their plan but more details definetly needed !

stev


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/9/2003 8:44:02 AM

By: nowImpoor

Good point. What are the steps to litigate most effectively as small depositors??


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/8/2003 10:22:47 PM

By: Ol' Hap

Cyrille, I believe you're right.

It's just a matter of some depositors having to wade through the stages of grief, I suppose. Resignation is one stage, but so is anger.

No matter the cause, the situation is unacceptable and someone must be held accountable. The situation must be thoroughly investigated and documented, the true cause of the collapse must be determined, and whatever penalties or restitution are deemed appropriate by the courts and governing bodies must be meted out.

Those wheels are already set in motion. The smaller depositors may feel that it's pointless to spend more money on litgation when the larger depositors are already acting. But if they have the wherewithal, they should go ahead and litigate simply on principle.

-Hap


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/8/2003 10:13:15 PM

By: Okke Ornstein

Re:"Yes - of course such questions are offensive. These are matters of privacy."

I don't think so. These are matters of possible undisclosed conflicts of interest. If Crozier would be (partially) owning OBNR without that fact being disclosed anywhere that would put Marchant's reporting in a whole different light.

Okke Ornstein


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/8/2003 5:42:37 PM

By: Cyrille Emery

May I express here my surprise.... few weeks ago when the whole affair erupted on this board and when I tried to put some perspective into depositors mind, I was bombarded (with few others) with some derogatory messages.
Now the only things I read here is the shere acceptation by depositors that their businesses are ruined by B.C and that themselves have taken in the lesson..
I sense a feeling of acceptation of the unavoidable and resignation.

I think it is time to wake up! B.C is a bank run in a jurisdiction where there are courts of law, there is a supervisor and there is a group...None are shielded away from lawsuits by the fact that some depositors may have dodged their tax returns and/or want to keep their offshore business away from the limelight...
I have hinted here at some actions that are available to depositors and that still remain valid today.
Now that 2 large creditors have gone to court it is time, albeit a bit late, for smaller depositors to follow suit and to held accountable not only the supervisor but also the whole group.
If there is impropriety, it has to be discovered by the course of law, not here through inuendos. If this is a case of incompetency it has to be established by court. If this is bad investment policies, it has to be established where the money is gone and take action to recover it.

The ECCB is maybe not responsible for the cockup in this case but they should interfere now if they want to keep credibility in offshore ilsands as financial centres! This can only be accomplished by public pressure where everything else has failed.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/8/2003 2:34:24 PM

By: David Marchant

OffshoreAlert has previously reported about a lawsuit filed against Crozier by one of its biggest depositors. Both the article and the lawsuit/asset freeze order are available for purchase from this site.

The action was filed by Vanuatu-registered Carla Bella Ltd., which has offices in Paris, France; Jakarta, Indonesia; and New York, U.S.A., according to a court filing. Defendants in the action are Bank Crozier Ltd., Daryl Sands, an accountant with PwC; and Grenada's Minister of Finance.

On May 21, 2003, the court issued an order freezing up to 1.4 million euros (US$1.6 million) that is owed to the claimant

David Marchant


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/8/2003 1:11:45 PM

By: WIntonian

More useless stuff from Ornstein. Yes - of course such questions are offensive. These are matters of privacy.

Of more concern is the matter of the law suits by the "two biggest depositors" in Grenada. One of those is certainly BC St Lucia, and the other possibly someone who has been befriended by the new controller of the bank.

It is possible that this controller (who happens to be one of the St Lucia employees) has designs on taking over the St Lucia bank for himself, and the best way to do that is to force Grenada out of business.

If he succeeds he ends up in control of a bank, and in receipt of a larger salary - and shares to boot!

What he is not doing is helping his erstwhile employer to recover an unfortunate situation.

It is totally clear that the management has made a real mess of running this bank, largely due to total lack of experience in the field of private banking. Johansson's experience (I do not say skill) was in investment banking - completely and utterly different to commercial banking, and requiring different skills. But, just as a company that has been badly managed can be turned around with fresh capital, so can a bank. If a company gets into financial difficulty it is not normal to assume fraud has caused it, so why are so many making this assumption here.

Most of the big banks are actually no better run, but short term financial cock-ups are absorbed by the sheer size of their business, and rapid adjustments to fees charged to their customers to make good the shortfall. (God forbid that equity investors should have to take a hit!)


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/9/2003 4:46:58 PM

By: Okke Ornstein

RE "Why you try to invade his privacy? He can do what he wants and make deas with any companies he wants and get advertisers and sponsors if he wants."

I am not denying anyone the right to make deals, sell his company, get advertisers or sponsors or engage in any other business deal. The point is that if there is a business relation between Crozier and Marchant and-or OBNR which is not disclosed, that would mean that we can´t rely on Marchant as an independent source of reliable news about the offshore finance sector. It immediately reduces the credibility of everything he wrote to zero, because, after all, it would be like Bank Crozier publishing a newsletter about it´s competitors using Marchant as an "independent" front. It really doesn´t have anything to do with privacy.

Okke Ornstein


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/9/2003 4:11:04 PM

By: WIn

Quite right.

Next question is to Ol Hap.

Are you a depositor with Bank Crozier. If not, then kindly keep your stupid questions to yourself.

There a lot of distressed people here who do not need this unhelpful crap from you.

It seems that no one has the full facts in this case, and it is pointless trying to guess or make wild assumptions.

One thing is very clear: GIFSA and PWC have mishandled this affair. This is not very surprising. In the UK the financial regulators are also a public joke, and they spend millions on so called experts. For a small jurisdiction with lesser resources it must be very difficult indeed. And PWC are no doubt dancing to the tune of the OECD and USA interests.

If only BC had the good sense to come out of hiding and let depositors know what the hell is going on it would be a lot better. How the office can take a bloody holiday with all this going on is quite beyond me.


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/9/2003 3:29:06 PM

By: dan

Hello!

Why you ppl continue your sensless battle here? You question has nothing to this thread subject.

Why you try to invade his privacy? He can do what he wants and make deas with any companies he wants and get advertisers and sponsors if he wants.

Next: question will be: Hom much money you have with Crozier?
Next: Hom much u make with OBNR etc.

Do you go tu shop and ask who is sponsor? You read newspaper and do you ask if advertiser has shares?

Dan


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/9/2003 2:55:05 PM

By: Ol' Hap - For David

David,

Would you clear this up please?

Has Crozier provided financial backing for OBNR?

Were you compensated for promoting Crozier?

Were you or OBNR a depositor with Crozier?

Has there indeed been a conflict of interest?
Or is it all innuendo and fluff?

-Hap


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/9/2003 12:37:11 PM

By: Ol' Hap - For nowImPoor

RE:"Good point. What are the steps to litigate most effectively as small depositors??"

Obviously, if you've read my posts, I'm not a lawyer. However, I have gotten some very good legal advice in the past. I did so by contacting my state BAR association and my employee assistance program asking for recommendations of lawyers who specialize in the area of litigation with which I was concerned. If you're outside the U.S., then check with your BAR equivalent. Also, it would probably be wise to join forces and pool resources with other small depositors.

Cyrille, have any more professional advice for small depositors as to concrete steps they should take now?

-Hap


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/9/2003 11:30:22 AM

By: VC again

As you noticed now one day holidays at Grenada and BC has day off again. It is very strange for me because they don't have Grenadian customers and international customers don't care if there is day off at Grenada or not. They waste a lot of time on day-offs instead of managain money.

They did not publish FAQ and I cannot agree to move funds to Trust yet.

stev




Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/10/2003 9:39:15 AM

By: Cyrille Emery

If I understand the grief of any depositor, please refrain from seeking revenge! What I have been discussing is the way, through legal means, to get out of the current situation!

What I meant by PR relations is also something concerted and planned professionally, not posting randomly across internet akeen to libel.

Therefore from now on, any depositor serious about lawsuit should remain SILENT!

You have to form the group, designate who amongst yourself is going to represent you and decide for a law firm (with banking experience as well as bankrutpcy) who will start the proceeding on your behalf.
Dont start bickering as time is of essence NOW!


Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/10/2003 8:22:31 AM

By: nowImpoor

Good plan.

All depositors interested in banding together please post your support here so we know how many people (anonymous is no problem for now) are interested in revenge. I for one would be willing to pay extra money to punish crozier for all the grief they've caused me.

Negative publicity is also a good stategy at the least. I want revenge on the entire stink hole country of Grenada. i also want to ruin the career of all involved with crozier management. Indelible black marks all over the internet will be no problem to arrange. My grief will be focussed on anger and revenge from here on out...






Anonymous
Posted: Friday, August 12, 2011

Posted: 6/10/2003 7:50:18 AM

By: Cyrille Emery

I was thinking of a one fit all solution for depositors but cannot see one. The issue is rather complex as the parent companies (Spain and Luxemburg)are not regulated as bank institutions...Therefore we cannot expect at this stage the involvement of any banking authorities in these countries.

The situation stands out at this now :
1) A weak regulator in Grenada that is not in a position to impose to the bank any sort of corrective measure, except threatening them of revoking the licence.
2) An audit firm, called in by the regulator, who is considered not fit to produce a clear unambiguous report and a solution to the problem,
3) A banking group which is not really a banking group....A management and a board which is not in a position to make substantial progress on resolving the issue,
4) A lack of communication from the parties above.
5) A choice between different legal fori

That is a real legal challenge to offer here a legal solution to hopeful depositors. I would then suggest the following :
1) Depositors have to co-ordinate their action. It is necessary for them to group and collect under one single responsibility all documents, statements they have from BC.
2) Go to court in Grenada and ask for the following :
2a) Removing of the management of B.C and appointment, under ECCB supervision, of a new management team,
2b) Call for cash injection from shareholders (Spain and Luxemburg),
2c) Suspension of shareholders rights and prohibition of profits and/or withdrawals by shareholders,
2d) Freezing of all assets of B.C and related entities (Mareva injunction or Anton Piller order),
2e) Appointment of a panel of independent experts to assess the soundness of the bank and the extent of its weaknesses (separate from PwC).

3) Have the judgment obtained enforced in jurisdiction where B.C operates either directly (management in Spain, holding in Luxemburg) or indirectly through agents or related entities.

Be also ready to launch a P.R campaign. There is nothing, in the current climate between OECD/FATF and offshore, that could speed things up like a good P.R pointing out the shortfalls of offshore countries and their regulators...

Now this is if Grenada court is the best court.... Some jurisdiction may see it differently (pride or else). Therefore depositors have a choice of fori.
The forum could be :
a) Grenada where the bank operates,
b) Any court of the country of the currency denomination the account is held upon,
c) The country where the bank has its meaningful management (Spain and/or Luxemburg).

There may have some depositors that would want to go their own way... I agree that they are free to do so but they have to take in consideration the others. Multiplicity of sentences would only complicate the matter!


 

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